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3 phase or single phase WC supply better?

Gnat666

Member
Sep 19, 2019
71
85
Perth, Australia
Getting ready to have the wall charger installed for my new M3 ...
I have 3 phase supply, but discovered an existing spare cable to the garage is only single phase (but large conductors).
I also have (a 3 phase I believe) solar inverter (SYMO 5.0-3-M) and I'm trying to work out the best play ...
  1. Can I still charge at highest amps with single phase or is it better to replace the cable (thats going to be tough) with 3 phase because I'll get a better result?
  2. Will using single phase not allow me to "simultaneously harvest" the best result from my solar (ie charging while the sun is shining) because I've loaded 1 phase, but the solar is out on 3 phases ... ?
... Plan to get home storage battery once the prices drop some more.
Again, once I get home battery, and want to charge solar --> battery (daytime) then battery --> to car (night time), does it matter if the WC is single or 3 phase?
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
Getting ready to have the wall charger installed for my new M3 ...
I have 3 phase supply, but discovered an existing spare cable to the garage is only single phase (but large conductors).
I also have (a 3 phase I believe) solar inverter (SYMO 5.0-3-M) and I'm trying to work out the best play ...
  1. Can I still charge at highest amps with single phase or is it better to replace the cable (thats going to be tough) with 3 phase because I'll get a better result?
  2. Will using single phase not allow me to "simultaneously harvest" the best result from my solar (ie charging while the sun is shining) because I've loaded 1 phase, but the solar is out on 3 phases ... ?
... Plan to get home storage battery once the prices drop some more.
Again, once I get home battery, and want to charge solar --> battery (daytime) then battery --> to car (night time), does it matter if the WC is single or 3 phase?
Synergy net out the export and import at the meter, so you doesn't matter if you charge on just one phase.
I have solar PV, powerwall and two HPWCs ( one 1p and one 3p)- come and have a look and a chat. Then I can see your M3 whilst waiting for mine.
 

Gnat666

Member
Sep 19, 2019
71
85
Perth, Australia
ok, thanks TP
But my bigger concern now, from reading the WC manual;
"Use a three-phase circuit breaker rated for 32A per phase to obtain the fastest charging."
... I assume thats the 22kw "max power rating" they mention right at the beginning of the manual.
So i cant get that charge rate with just single phase!

Has anyone been able to do a full 3 phase and get a 22kw charge rate at home?

PS. You at home this long weekend TP?
 

ShockOnT

⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Jun 26, 2016
3,404
3,093
Sydney
You’ll get slightly faster charging if you can be bothered to run 4C+E three phase cable.

The M3 can charge at 1 x 32A or 3 x 16A. This works out to 7.2kW or 11.52kW at 240V.

Current Model S/X can do 1 x 32A or 3 x 24A, and older dual charger Model S/X can do the full 3 x 32A.

It’s the same HPWC in all cases. So if I were you I would do a cheap install using the existing cabling and see if it meets your needs. You can always have new 3phase cabling run at a later date.
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
We are testing THC's M3 on 40amp single phase (the old Tesla HPWC) next week - theoretically it should be able to draw the full 40 amps (only 13.3 amps on each subcharger per phase) but will report back.
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
ok, thanks TP
But my bigger concern now, from reading the WC manual;
"Use a three-phase circuit breaker rated for 32A per phase to obtain the fastest charging."
... I assume thats the 22kw "max power rating" they mention right at the beginning of the manual.
So i cant get that charge rate with just single phase!

Has anyone been able to do a full 3 phase and get a 22kw charge rate at home?

PS. You at home this long weekend TP?
Yes - would be great to see you - we are in Bicton 6157
 

TH232

Member
Aug 18, 2019
80
389
Perth
We are testing THC's M3 on 40amp single phase (the old Tesla HPWC) next week - theoretically it should be able to draw the full 40 amps (only 13.3 amps on each subcharger per phase) but will report back.
Techno-phile, I assume you are referring to the test we did today. Confirming M3 drew 40amps now worries on the S85 single phase 40amp charger. However since your supply voltage dropped to 227V I think your supply lines from street to house are undersized.
 
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Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
Sorry for calling you THC, TH232:)
But thanks for agreeing to risk your car on a 40 amp supply. Only half came from the grid since Powerwall and Solar PV supplied 20 amps.
 

Fantomsss

Member
Mar 14, 2019
122
94
Sydney
Anyone in Sydney Norwest want to try 3 phase and chat about the setup - let me know via PM. My S can do 3 x 24A and voltage only goes down slightly to 246 from 248.
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
Anyone in Sydney Norwest want to try 3 phase and chat about the setup - let me know via PM. My S can do 3 x 24A and voltage only goes down slightly to 246 from 248.
Yeah, 20191001_084424.jpg same with mine on a balanced 24amp 3phase load. The voltage drop occurs when drawing high current on one phase (unbalanced)
 

to4garret

Member
Jul 15, 2019
19
27
Perth, Western Australia
Hi Team,


I dont mean to hijack this thread, but i have been doing some research re single vs 3 phase UMC charging which kinda fits in here (i think).

I've been looking at portable options for using the standard/industrial 3 Phase / 32 amp sockets that are dotted around the country and from the reading i've done it seems the UMC (Gen 2) that comes with the Model 3 is Single Phase only and that would limit the max charge speed to around 7.6kw (240v @ 32amp) once wired for the 56pa420 plug, ideally i would like to find something that would do the max 11kw (3 Phase / 16amp) as i think that would be more useful for me over time.

1. When researching the options it seems EVSEs like the Juice Booster 2, or other comparative leads seem to be the go and float about the $1,800-$2,300AUD. I can see the value in them but those options seem a bit over kill for the single use i can see. I did think about buying a JB2 and using it as the main portable changing for the Model 3, then selling the UMC and WC to help recoup the costs but i dont like the thought of removing the backup options and investing all the eggs in one basket.

2. The other thought i had was making the Wall Connector portable and having a 56pa420 plug installed, this is probably the cheapest option but personally i am worried about the reliability of the WC which isnt really designed to be portable/transported/moved about a lot.

3. This might be a brain fart but looking at the Gen 1 UMC for the EU it has the Type 2 connector and is 3 phase compatible and i assume it would work with the Model 3. If thats the case then the same approach which is used for the Model S/X would work here and also deliver the full 11kw - It seems this setup would be around $1200AUD and have a benefit of including the charge port opener on the Type 2 plug (and being a Tesla 1st party product).

I did read some murmurs about reliability on the Gen 1 UMC at higher kw, but i dont know how valid that is, nor do i know if the EU Gen 1 UMC with the Type 2 connector actually works with the Model 3.

Would be keen to hear other peoples ideas/experiences.
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
Hi Team,


I dont mean to hijack this thread, but i have been doing some research re single vs 3 phase UMC charging which kinda fits in here (i think).

I've been looking at portable options for using the standard/industrial 3 Phase / 32 amp sockets that are dotted around the country and from the reading i've done it seems the UMC (Gen 2) that comes with the Model 3 is Single Phase only and that would limit the max charge speed to around 7.6kw (240v @ 32amp) once wired for the 56pa420 plug, ideally i would like to find something that would do the max 11kw (3 Phase / 16amp) as i think that would be more useful for me over time.

1. When researching the options it seems EVSEs like the Juice Booster 2, or other comparative leads seem to be the go and float about the $1,800-$2,300AUD. I can see the value in them but those options seem a bit over kill for the single use i can see. I did think about buying a JB2 and using it as the main portable changing for the Model 3, then selling the UMC and WC to help recoup the costs but i dont like the thought of removing the backup options and investing all the eggs in one basket.

2. The other thought i had was making the Wall Connector portable and having a 56pa420 plug installed, this is probably the cheapest option but personally i am worried about the reliability of the WC which isnt really designed to be portable/transported/moved about a lot.

3. This might be a brain fart but looking at the Gen 1 UMC for the EU it has the Type 2 connector and is 3 phase compatible and i assume it would work with the Model 3. If thats the case then the same approach which is used for the Model S/X would work here and also deliver the full 11kw - It seems this setup would be around $1200AUD and have a benefit of including the charge port opener on the Type 2 plug (and being a Tesla 1st party product).

I did read some murmurs about reliability on the Gen 1 UMC at higher kw, but i dont know how valid that is, nor do i know if the EU Gen 1 UMC with the Type 2 connector actually works with the Model 3.

Would be keen to hear other peoples ideas/experiences.
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
Yes you have identified the problem for M3s going east or north out of Perth, where there are no DC chargers ( except Jurien Bay).
There are some Tesla HPWCs at roadhouses , resorts and in TeslaWA Slack we have a list of 37 locations which Tesla have approved if we can persaude the owners to install. We need volunteers to continue the work on this.

Your option 2 is what we recommend anyway ( to make HPWC mobile and easier to replace if it fails, and an option to charge from the socket), and is good for going bush as long as the HPWC is treated carefully.

Your option 3 is ideal if you can buy a gen1 UMC, since the redeuro adaptors to 3 phase plugs are readily available and can even be borrowed from TOCA or TOCWA here in Perth for specific trips. It will deliver the max capability for AC charging of 11kW to a M3.

I demonstrate all the options at Garden City each morning.
 

raynewman

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,516
512
Brisbane, Australia
Hi Team,


I dont mean to hijack this thread, but i have been doing some research re single vs 3 phase UMC charging which kinda fits in here (i think).

I've been looking at portable options for using the standard/industrial 3 Phase / 32 amp sockets that are dotted around the country and from the reading i've done it seems the UMC (Gen 2) that comes with the Model 3 is Single Phase only and that would limit the max charge speed to around 7.6kw (240v @ 32amp) once wired for the 56pa420 plug, ideally i would like to find something that would do the max 11kw (3 Phase / 16amp) as i think that would be more useful for me over time.

1. When researching the options it seems EVSEs like the Juice Booster 2, or other comparative leads seem to be the go and float about the $1,800-$2,300AUD. I can see the value in them but those options seem a bit over kill for the single use i can see. I did think about buying a JB2 and using it as the main portable changing for the Model 3, then selling the UMC and WC to help recoup the costs but i dont like the thought of removing the backup options and investing all the eggs in one basket.

2. The other thought i had was making the Wall Connector portable and having a 56pa420 plug installed, this is probably the cheapest option but personally i am worried about the reliability of the WC which isnt really designed to be portable/transported/moved about a lot.

3. This might be a brain fart but looking at the Gen 1 UMC for the EU it has the Type 2 connector and is 3 phase compatible and i assume it would work with the Model 3. If thats the case then the same approach which is used for the Model S/X would work here and also deliver the full 11kw - It seems this setup would be around $1200AUD and have a benefit of including the charge port opener on the Type 2 plug (and being a Tesla 1st party product).

I did read some murmurs about reliability on the Gen 1 UMC at higher kw, but i dont know how valid that is, nor do i know if the EU Gen 1 UMC with the Type 2 connector actually works with the Model 3.

Would be keen to hear other peoples ideas/experiences.
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No connection - just looked good.
 

ShockOnT

⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
Jun 26, 2016
3,404
3,093
Sydney
Techno-phile, I assume you are referring to the test we did today. Confirming M3 drew 40amps now worries on the S85 single phase 40amp charger. However since your supply voltage dropped to 227V I think your supply lines from street to house are undersized.
Or more likely the line from the meter box to the HPWC.
Apologies if this was addressed up-thread.
 

Techno-phile

S100D, P3D- in garage
Nov 13, 2014
344
467
Perth, Australia
Or more likely the line from the meter box to the HPWC.
Apologies if this was addressed up-thread.
Same 3p cable from Meter to 3phase socket for both 1p 40amp HPWC and 3p 32amp HPWC.
Neutral increased in size to be able to handle single phase.
No voltage drop on 24amp 3p, but big voltage drop on 40amp 1p.
I always assumed the voltage drop was due to a large unbalanced draw on 1p (not that I need to charge at this rate :))
 

to4garret

Member
Jul 15, 2019
19
27
Perth, Western Australia
Your option 3 is ideal if you can buy a gen1 UMC, since the redeuro adaptors to 3 phase plugs are readily available and can even be borrowed from TOCA or TOCWA here in Perth for specific trips. It will deliver the max capability for AC charging of 11kW to a M3.

I demonstrate all the options at Garden City each morning.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Techno-phile, so just to confirm you have tried a Gen1 UMC with a M3? I dont see why it wouldnt work just that i havent been able to find a confirmation that it does.
 

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