32 Amps is not enough!

[RecklessFury]

Speaking of this. There are Model X's that have 72 amp chargers that are software locked to 48 amps. I remember reading about then on this forum and other places. Some Model S's have them and are software locked to. These S's would be the ones with 72 amp charger, not the dual 40 amp chargers.

From my understanding they stopped doing this early December 2018. That's the month my car was made. I don't know the status of my charger but I hope they some day just unlock them all given they no longer sell the charger upgrade.

 

[bob_p]

32A should be enough for most overnight charging, which is probably why Tesla saved some $ on UMC 2 by using components only rated for 32A.

For faster charging, owners would need to use a Gen 1 UMC (Tesla no longer makes them) or a location that has an HPWC/Wall Connector/destination charger on a 50+ A circuit - or plan to charge as much as you can and then stop at a Supercharger.

 

[DoctorVenkman]

A few points about this mindless rant.

1. Driving 400+ miles in day is without question an edge case. Not normal usage. You have superchargers for such occasions.
2. The 100 miles per day driving is easily covered by a 32amp 240V charge overnight. Not sure what you're complaining about here.
3. Having a 72amp connection wouldn't help much. It would still take hours to charge to full so you'd be looking at overnight once again.
4. A 32 amp, 240V charge is considered "Level 2" not "Level 1". The level refers to the voltage.

Please get your facts straight before you spew nonsense.

 

[doghousePVD]

I guess my original post was misinterpreted. Sorry for my lack of clarity.

I fully understand the the nominal 50 A charger is reduced to 32 A to comply with code. I happen to be visiting Canada, and it is a 40 A breaker. That is not an issue for me. A version 1 UMC wouldn't have helped.

The very long charging times was because of the A/C for the battery and passenger compartment was using about 4 kw, half of the 8 kw getting to the car. I knew that. After the A/C was off and the batteries had cooled a bit, it "only" took another 10-12 hours to charge.

My beef is so many people seem to think slow charging is enough for everybody because they only drive short distances and have known itineraries. Many drivers do not. Proselytizing that those drivers are wrong just unnecessarily increases antagonism against EVs.

My 2018 X does charge at 72 A, and I am happy with that. I think Tesla is making an error in not making 72+ Amp chargers available as an option. Yes, I get for many urban-only people the small chargers, especially on the 3, are adequate, but for a lot of folks it's sub-optimal. Workarounds such as using SC more often is ineffective when they are 50-100 miles away.

Clearly any Level 2 (240 V) is faster than Level 1 (120 V usually only 15 A). For the homebodies who consider 400 miles an "edge case", I only say "nonsense".

 

[DoctorVenkman]

Just lmao at the insinuation that someone who doesn't drive 400 miles regularly is a homebody. Have you heard of airplanes? They're pretty cool.

I'm sorry that for some reason you feel the need to level 2 charge your 400 mile trip instead of using the supercharger network that was specifically designed for this use case. Where I'm from we have saying that describes your situation pretty well - "you're pissing into the wind"

 

[bmah]

Let's stay calm, cool, and collected, people...

Thanks,

Bruce.

 

[Cosmacelf]

FYI, Canada’s supercharger network isn’t nearly as ubiquitous as it is in the US. The OP is probably traveling routes that don’t have good SC coverage.

I agree with the OP that there are cases where 32A overnight charging isn’t enough. Having an 80A destination charger would be nice. However, it turns out that it isn’t easy for people to install high amperage chargers. I think experience has taught us that many homeowners struggle with finding enough power for a 50A breaker. Rather than push against the tide of barely adequate home breaker panels, I think Tesla decided that building out its Supercharger network would work better.

But there are indeed SC challenged areas, most of Canada by geography (but not by population) being one of them.

But this just means that lightly travelled, very rural areas do not yet have great EV infrastructure. Tesla and hopefully others will continue working on these areas over time. But it will take many more years for full rural coverage. Six years ago, Tesla only had six Supercharger locations in the world, all in California. We’ve come a long way in just six years. But that doesn’t mean EV infrastructure is an ubiquitous as gas stations ... yet.

 

[jerry33]

FYI, Canada’s supercharger network isn’t nearly as ubiquitous as it is in the US. The OP is probably traveling routes that don’t have good SC coverage.

Between the SCs and CHAdeMO, Canada has a reasonable network of fast charging (there are still a few gaps on the TransCanada Highway in the Prairie Provinces, although you'll have to buy the adapter which isn't cheap or borrow one). It will be even better when Tesla comes out with the CCS adapter.

 

[Yinn]

My beef is so many people seem to think slow charging is enough for everybody because they only drive short distances and have known itineraries. Many drivers do not. Proselytizing that those drivers are wrong just unnecessarily increases antagonism against EVs.

So your beef is with people generalizing? And to combat that, you’ve decided to generalize the people who are generalizing?

I live in a rural area. As such, I drive at least 100 miles a day, and 400 miles in a day is rare for me but 2-300 is not. A 35 mile drive to the hardware store is not uncommon for me, so I think it’s safe to say that “urban” and “short distances” do not apply to me.

That being said, I only have electric vehicles and have for several years now. My Tesla being the biggest pack at 75kwh, charging at 30A and I supplement where I can with superchargers. I don’t go out of my way for them, but I will stop opportunistically. It actually reminds me of filling up like a gas car. I don’t plan them, but if the next station isn’t for 15-20 miles and I’m at a quarter tank, I should probably fill up.

Would it be easier if I had a bigger pack or faster charger? Yes, I don’t think anyone would argue with you on that. But 30A works just fine for many folks. 72A does too. And of course we’d all love to be able to have personal superchargers.

 

[jkcheng122]

My beef is so many people seem to think slow charging is enough for everybody because they only drive short distances and have known itineraries. Many drivers do not. Proselytizing that those drivers are wrong just unnecessarily increases antagonism against EVs.

My 2018 X does charge at 72 A, and I am happy with that. I think Tesla is making an error in not making 72+ Amp chargers available as an option. Yes, I get for many urban-only people the small chargers, especially on the 3, are adequate, but for a lot of folks it's sub-optimal. Workarounds such as using SC more often is ineffective when they are 50-100 miles away.

Clearly any Level 2 (240 V) is faster than Level 1 (120 V usually only 15 A). For the homebodies who consider 400 miles an "edge case", I only say "nonsense".

I didn't know there are many people who think slow charging is enough for everybody. I always thought majority of us believe Level 2 is needed to be comfortable with range anxiety. Personally my commute is 80 miles a day, I would not be able to get enough charge overnight at Level 1.

 

[jboy210]

I didn't know there are many people who think slow charging is enough for everybody. I always thought majority of us believe Level 2 is needed to be comfortable with range anxiety. Personally my commute is 80 miles a day, I would not be able to get enough charge overnight at Level 1.

According to the DOC the average US commute is around 32 miles round trip. Level 1 charging could easily meet this, especially in a less hungry car like a Model 3 that gets 5 mph of range on Level 1 charging. My neighbor goes about this far in his Model 3 and sees no reason to get a Nema 14-50 plug for his UMC or install a HPWC.

FWIW, I have a HPWC and my commute is 40-42 feet. So commute distance is not necessarily a qualifier for installing Level 2 chargers.

 

[jboy210]

... Six years ago, Tesla only had six Supercharger locations in the world, all in California. We’ve come a long way in just six years. But that doesn’t mean EV infrastructure is an ubiquitous as gas stations ... yet.

But they are getting close in some places. In a few months there will 6 Supercharger locations within 15 miles of me with one having as many as 20 stands and several having 10 or more stands. 3 years ago there was one location with 14 stands. So the build out is happening!

 

[yuhong]

Note that it is at least 240V and not 208V.

 

[SSedan]

According to the DOC the average US commute is around 32 miles round trip. Level 1 charging could easily meet this, especially in a less hungry car like a Model 3 that gets 5 mph of range on Level 1 charging. My neighbor goes about this far in his Model 3 and sees no reason to get a Nema 14-50 plug for his UMC or install a HPWC.

FWIW, I have a HPWC and my commute is 40-42 feet. So commute distance is not necessarily a qualifier for installing Level 2 chargers.

But an S that gets 3mph you throw in some vampire drain, some harsh weather particularly cold and Level 1 doesn't cut it even if you only have a 32mile round trip commute.

 

[ajdelange]

Lot's of confusing stuff here for sure but there is only one thing I am really concerned about and that is the "The 75% Canadian rule .... continuous load" comment. Are you saying that in Canada breakers must be derated 25% for continuous loads? Or breakers serving EVSE? Can you site or better yet quote the relevant section of the code? Damned if I want to pay $140 for it for a couple of paragraphs (even if it's Canadian $). I currently have a corded HPWC installed in Quebec. It is set as it came from the factory: Position 8 for a 50 amp breaker - max current 40A Amps which is the appropriate setting for a continuous load plugged into a 14-50R behind a 50 Amp breaker in the US. Are you saying that it needs to be set to Position 7 which corresponds to a 45A breaker and delivers a maximum of 36 amps (less than 075*50 = 37.5 A)? If so I may get around to doing that before the insurance adjuster arrives if there is a fire in the garage.

Not so concerned about but curious about the "at least 240V and not 208V" comment. What is at least 240V and not 208V?

As to OP's original question/complaint as I understand it: with a UMC there is no way to get more than 40 amps charge rate that I can think of. If a higher charge rate is sought then the only recourse is to go to a destination charger that will supply more or to a friend's or acquaintance's house equipped with a HPWC wired behind a 60 Amp (or larger) breaker. In a post 2018 X 48 amps is the most the car will accept. If it is pre December 2018 it can take up to 72A (if it had the high power charging option installed) which requires a 90 or 100 A breaker. I'll note that I got a 72 amp charge from a destination charger wired to a 208 V phase (3ø system) at a dairy. Of course I only got 15 kW instead of the 17.3 kW I get in Virginia where the HPWC is wired to a 100 A breaker in a single phase system

 

[jerry33]

Lot's of confusing stuff here for sure but there is only one thing I am really concerned about and that is the "The 75% Canadian rule .... continuous load" comment. Are you saying that in Canada breakers must be derated 25% for continuous loads? Or breakers serving EVSE? Can you site or better yet quote the relevant section of the code?

Here are the changes

Towards the bottom "Complementary to the introduction of EVEMS, a new Table of loads and demand factors has been added specifically for EVSE." I was unable to find the actual table. (I didn't look all that long).

 

[yuhong]

Lot's of confusing stuff here for sure but there is only one thing I am really concerned about and that is the "The 75% Canadian rule .... continuous load" comment. Are you saying that in Canada breakers must be derated 25% for continuous loads? Or breakers serving EVSE? Can you site or better yet quote the relevant section of the code? Damned if I want to pay $140 for it for a couple of paragraphs (even if it's Canadian $). I currently have a corded HPWC installed in Quebec. It is set as it came from the factory: Position 8 for a 50 amp breaker - max current 40A Amps which is the appropriate setting for a continuous load plugged into a 14-50R behind a 50 Amp breaker in the US. Are you saying that it needs to be set to Position 7 which corresponds to a 45A breaker and delivers a maximum of 36 amps (less than 075*50 = 37.5 A)? If so I may get around to doing that before the insurance adjuster arrives if there is a fire in the garage.

Not so concerned about but curious about the "at least 240V and not 208V" comment. What is at least 240V and not 208V?

As to OP's original question/complaint as I understand it: with a UMC there is no way to get more than 40 amps charge rate that I can think of. If a higher charge rate is sought then the only recourse is to go to a destination charger that will supply more or to a friend's or acquaintance's house equipped with a HPWC wired behind a 60 Amp (or larger) breaker. In a post 2018 X 48 amps is the most the car will accept. If it is pre December 2018 it can take up to 72A (if it had the high power charging option installed) which requires a 90 or 100 A breaker. I'll note that I got a 72 amp charge from a destination charger wired to a 208 V phase (3ø system) at a dairy. Of course I only got 15 kW instead of the 17.3 kW I get in Virginia where the HPWC is wired to a 100 A breaker in a single phase system

Yea, AFAIK this is not the case. The real reason is for ULC/CSA certification that Ontario was demanding, and that is partly because the UMC was getting hot at 40A.

 

[ewoodrick]

I guess my original post was misinterpreted. Sorry for my lack of clarity.

I fully understand the the nominal 50 A charger is reduced to 32 A to comply with code. I happen to be visiting Canada, and it is a 40 A breaker. That is not an issue for me. A version 1 UMC wouldn't have helped.

The very long charging times was because of the A/C for the battery and passenger compartment was using about 4 kw, half of the 8 kw getting to the car. I knew that. After the A/C was off and the batteries had cooled a bit, it "only" took another 10-12 hours to charge.

My beef is so many people seem to think slow charging is enough for everybody because they only drive short distances and have known itineraries. Many drivers do not. Proselytizing that those drivers are wrong just unnecessarily increases antagonism against EVs.

My 2018 X does charge at 72 A, and I am happy with that. I think Tesla is making an error in not making 72+ Amp chargers available as an option. Yes, I get for many urban-only people the small chargers, especially on the 3, are adequate, but for a lot of folks it's sub-optimal. Workarounds such as using SC more often is ineffective when they are 50-100 miles away.

Clearly any Level 2 (240 V) is faster than Level 1 (120 V usually only 15 A). For the homebodies who consider 400 miles an "edge case", I only say "nonsense".

Tesla provides Superchargers for those that travel long distances in vehicles.
L2 chargers, even Gen 2, are able to charge the cars in about 10 hours, a good night's sleep
L1 chargers are suitable for a LOT more people than most folks think. The average commute is a LOT smaller than everyone thinks.

In your discussion, well first, you ranted over something that ended up not being true, but even having faster charging in your car would have meant very little. 8 amps@ 240V, that's 3 mph on an X?
No one is going to have more than 50A for you to charge from unless they have a Tesla.
You may find some destination chargers that can support it, but there a lot more that don't even support 32A.
The only place that you will tend to find a greater than 40A charger is at home.

But then again, why are we having this thread, your numbers were wrong, as I suggested and you are indeed able to charge, at a lowly 32A and be happy in the morning.

And don't go calling a Model 3 urban-only cars. I've got more range than you do.

 

[yuhong]

Lot's of confusing stuff here for sure but there is only one thing I am really concerned about and that is the "The 75% Canadian rule .... continuous load" comment. Are you saying that in Canada breakers must be derated 25% for continuous loads? Or breakers serving EVSE? Can you site or better yet quote the relevant section of the code? Damned if I want to pay $140 for it for a couple of paragraphs (even if it's Canadian $). I currently have a corded HPWC installed in Quebec. It is set as it came from the factory: Position 8 for a 50 amp breaker - max current 40A Amps which is the appropriate setting for a continuous load plugged into a 14-50R behind a 50 Amp breaker in the US. Are you saying that it needs to be set to Position 7 which corresponds to a 45A breaker and delivers a maximum of 36 amps (less than 075*50 = 37.5 A)? If so I may get around to doing that before the insurance adjuster arrives if there is a fire in the garage.

Not so concerned about but curious about the "at least 240V and not 208V" comment. What is at least 240V and not 208V?

As to OP's original question/complaint as I understand it: with a UMC there is no way to get more than 40 amps charge rate that I can think of. If a higher charge rate is sought then the only recourse is to go to a destination charger that will supply more or to a friend's or acquaintance's house equipped with a HPWC wired behind a 60 Amp (or larger) break24er. In a post 2018 X 48 amps is the most the car will accept. If it is pre December 2018 it can take up to 72A (if it had the high power charging option installed) which requires a 90 or 100 A breaker. I'll note that I got a 72 amp charge from a destination charger wired to a 208 V phase (3ø system) at a dairy. Of course I only got 15 kW instead of the 17.3 kW I get in Virginia where the HPWC is wired to a 100 A breaker in a single phase system

The EV charging voltage. Typically in cities with three phase power many public chargers are 208V off a 120/208V wye three phase feed. In this case they were using the faster 240V.

 

[jboy210]

But an S that gets 3mph you throw in some vampire drain, some harsh weather particularly cold and Level 1 doesn't cut it even if you only have a 32mile round trip commute.

Move?

My in-laws are in Wisconsin. They vacate the state every December for Florida and do not return until March or April.

Plus, can you even buy a Tesla in Wisconsin? I thought they have dealer only sales there.