402 mi range — Wow!

[Uncle Paul]

but what about charging rate for both cars?

Charging rates are faster for gassers, but they cost 3X as much. Also spew out pollution.

Step by step, EVs are becoming the smart choice for more and more people.

 

[luke68bird]

Us northern folk with up to 40% range loss in the winter can say there is no such thing as too much range. So, 400 miles is awesome but at -30c, it’s more like 240.

I don't get near the rated range. I have a model 3 with 300 mile range and get about half on road trips with bikes on roof and hitch box. City driving is 350ish mile range, too much.

 

[David_Cary]

Well of course you don't get rated range with bikes on roof.
In a really rational world, we wouldn't drive the same vehicles for in-town driving vs road trip.
But people like their own cars so you have to accept that they aren't perfect for every task.

 

[KalJoMoS]

Unfortunately this is valid only for US/Canada cars.
Here in Europe there is no production date anywhere on the car.
Maybe there is a way to guess it from the VIN number...

By removing any interior panel (like frunk liner) you will see random stickers on the parts behind. It will give you proximate time it has been assembled...
Mine is 03/16 and the stickers have 12/15 and 01/16 prints on them.

 

[Struja]

Well of course you don't get rated range with bikes on roof.
In a really rational world, we wouldn't drive the same vehicles for in-town driving vs road trip.
But people like their own cars so you have to accept that they aren't perfect for every task.

I would imagine that bikes on a roof or weight has a comparable effect with an ICE car but I don't see a comparable effect with the cold. Although my mileage would go down in the winter, it was nowhere near 40% like it is with my Tesla on the coldest days.

 

[Bodyhauler]

It's a great selling/psycological tool. I think most people are only familiar with the little electric cars that may only get up to 100 miles of range or the hybrids that only go 25-35 miles on full electric before the gas takes over.
I always get asked how far can I go on a full charge. I tell them my estimated rated range but then tell them it's not the same as driving an ICE car, and that you charge for what you need and not fully charge or fill-up like an ICE.
So once they know EV can go as far as an ICE car more of them might be inclined to buy one.

 

[SilverGS]

Again, EPA. If one drives calmly and at speed limits, range can be met and even exceeded.

Agreed. I've tested my 2016 75D several times driving at 90 kph (I don't normally drive at this speed) and I can easily (without fail) achieve my rated range (not when it's very cold - as in -10 Celsius) of 390 km (243 miles - 6 % degradation from new). At 105 kph, I get within 95% of my rated range.

 

[luke68bird]

I would imagine that bikes on a roof or weight has a comparable effect with an ICE car but I don't see a comparable effect with the cold. Although my mileage would go down in the winter, it was nowhere near 40% like it is with my Tesla on the coldest days.

I don't snow bike, ski or snowboard but 400 miles might only be 150 in the winter with fatbikes on the roof and full of people. Some still don't see why 400 miles still is not enough for some (many) people

 

[Struja]

I don't snow bike, ski or snowboard but 400 miles might only be 150 in the winter with fatbikes on the roof and full of people. Some still don't see why 400 miles still is not enough for some (many) people

I have often thought that between 1200-1300km or about 750 miles is where I would want the battery in my dream scenario. My thinking goes something like this... at 1250km your 90% is 1,125km. Account for 20% eventual battery degradation and it gets your 90% to around 900km. Account for 40% range loss at -30c and your 90% is 540km.

That’s better than my 90D at 100% with a new battery and as good or better than any ICE car. Maybe a pipe dream....but it’s my pipe dream.

Right now on the coldest days my 90% is about 240km or 150 miles. Not nearly as where I would like it.

 

[luke68bird]

I have often thought that between 1200-1300km or about 750 miles is where I would want the battery in my dream scenario. My thinking goes something like this... at 1250km your 90% is 1,125km. Account for 20% eventual battery degradation and it gets your 90% to around 900km. Account for 40% range loss at -30c and your 90% is 540km.

That’s better than my 90D at 100% with a new battery and as good or better than any ICE car. Maybe a pipe dream....but it’s my pipe dream.

Right now on the coldest days my 90% is about 240km or 150 miles. Not nearly as where I would like it.

I have a pickup tri motor reservation and think it will be enough space and range but would like more.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I would imagine that bikes on a roof or weight has a comparable effect with an ICE car but I don't see a comparable effect with the cold. Although my mileage would go down in the winter, it was nowhere near 40% like it is with my Tesla on the coldest days.

The "cold penalty" is really not a penalty when you consider the factors that cause range to go down in the winter. First, cold air is denser so aerodynamic drag is higher, especially at higher speeds. This affects EV and ICE cars the same. The problem is that EVs are already operating very efficiently, so any decrease in efficiency is a higher total percentage making it appear as if the cold impacts them more. But it is just perception. ICE and EV drivers are both using the same additional energy to drive in colder weather due to denser air.

The second factor is heating. ICE vehicles are always giving off waste heat. The only difference is that in the winter some of that waste heat is redirected into the cabin, and less of the waste heat is pulled out of the engine to keep it warm. Of course EVs have to produce extra heat to warm the cabin and battery. So, if EVs kept their heaters running all the time, only redirecting the heat into the cabin during the winter, there would be no loss of efficiency in the winter because you would be paying the penalty ALL YEAR LONG.

So, these wintertime "penalties" are only visible because of greater efficiency in general. Think of all of the energy you are saving when it is NOT COLD OUT.

 

[SO16]

I would imagine that bikes on a roof or weight has a comparable effect with an ICE car but I don't see a comparable effect with the cold. Although my mileage would go down in the winter, it was nowhere near 40% like it is with my Tesla on the coldest days.

Preheating a bit before you leave while plugged in should greatly help with that.

 

[2101Guy]

Preheating a bit before you leave while plugged in should greatly help with that.

True, but also (if one were really calculating overall efficiency) one would need to factor in the amount of additional house electricity used to preheat the car.

If getting free electricity from work, obviously the pre-heating cost is a non factor re: owner cost

 

[SO16]

True, but also (if one were really calculating overall efficiency) one would need to factor in the amount of additional house electricity used to preheat the car.

If getting free electricity from work, obviously the pre-heating cost is a non factor re: owner cost

True but I’m just referring to range. Not cost. And cost is still relatively cheap.

 

[SilverGS]

I have often thought that between 1200-1300km or about 750 miles is where I would want the battery in my dream scenario. My thinking goes something like this... at 1250km your 90% is 1,125km. Account for 20% eventual battery degradation and it gets your 90% to around 900km. Account for 40% range loss at -30c and your 90% is 540km.

That’s better than my 90D at 100% with a new battery and as good or better than any ICE car. Maybe a pipe dream....but it’s my pipe dream.

Right now on the coldest days my 90% is about 240km or 150 miles. Not nearly as where I would like it.

That would be nice - to have unlimited range. But realistically, what is your daily commute?

In spite of the "40%" range loss (I'm not trying to trivialize your range anxiety) you still have 240 km range. How much of that do you use per day on an average basis over the year?

 

[Struja]

Preheating a bit before you leave while plugged in should greatly help with that.

My car is garage parked in an insulated garage. I try to time my end of charge with my morning departure and that helps but inevitably if my car is outside for a long period of time, the battery becomes cold soaked.

 

[Struja]

That would be nice - to have unlimited range. But realistically, what is your daily commute?

In spite of the "40%" range loss (I'm not trying to trivialize your range anxiety) you still have 240 km range. How much of that do you use per day on an average basis over the year?

It varies because I don’t have a “usual day” but in the best case scenario I could ride a bike to my office in about 15 minutes. Unfortunately, most days I travel between 150-350km. I put about 40k km per year.

 

[SilverGS]

It varies because I don’t have a “usual day” but in the best case scenario I could ride a bike to my office in about 15 minutes. Unfortunately, most days I travel between 150-350km. I put about 40k km per year.

Ah, now your comment about 240 Km makes sense. I would also have range anxiety in the same scenario.

Luckily for us in the GTA, the days of -30 C are a distant memory. So the 40% range loss you're experiencing is not that often.

 

[Struja]

Ah, now your comment about 240 Km makes sense. I would also have range anxiety in the same scenario.

Luckily for us in the GTA, the days of -30 C are a distant memory. So the 40% range loss you're experiencing is not that often.

And don’t get me wrong... I still love this car. It is still my dream car but I would never turn down more range.

 

[sorka]

lets be honest though.. Tesla is definitely fluffing those numbers. even rolling out of the factory the range it shows is never the full advertised number. meanwhile the 200mile taycan has been easily doing 300 in the real world lol

My P85DL's rated mileage of 253 is based on 310 wh / mile. My life time average after 114K miles is currently 306 wh / mile. I've easily beat the rated range with 70 mile per hour driving on the freeway everywhere I go and over 2500 Ludicrous launches(since I tripped my L counter which goes off at 2500).