Terminator857
Active Member
It is the most popular version, because it is the only version here in the U.S.
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500 + Mile Range Debate
- Thread starter Kee_Chain
- Start date
TomServo
Active Member
So what range will Tesla offer when they start manufacturing cars with the 4680 batteries? I would hope they offer various range options to include something north of 400 miles for those that have the need. I’d pay extra for a super Long Range Y.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Terminator857
Active Member
Americans Want Cheaper EVs With Over 500 Miles of Range: Survey
There's an old saying about having your cake and eating it too...
www.thedrive.com
Typically Tesla starts off modest and over time increase the range. And they may increase range with OTA update(s).
Tesomega
Member
Or they say they increased the range. In my case I have gone for the published rated range of 339 miles to 300 miles... in 4 Yr/39K miles.I'm more in the 600 mile range club assuming they are light and cheap.Americans Want Cheaper EVs With Over 500 Miles of Range: Survey
There's an old saying about having your cake and eating it too...
Typically Tesla starts off modest and over time increase the range. And they may increase range with OTA update(s).
gtae07
Member
Precisely. I'm not worried about hitting 400+ miles in one shot--200 miles (with a reserve to get to the next charging station) would be perfectly fine. But that's 200 usable miles, not EPA miles. EPA range is great for trying to make rough comparisons between vehicles, but for real-life planning it's awfully optimistic. Give me a range figure for a six-year-old car going 80mph with five adults, precipitation, a headwind, and the heater or AC running full blast, not a brand-new car with a 105lb driver on a nice country road and a sunny 70 degree day.
I think many of the "potential buyers" asking for 500+ mile range are either thinking about an ICE car they have that gives figures like that, or they're thinking of wildly optimistic MPG ratings that turned out to be underwhelming in real life.
Until a "point of no return" is no longer a factor I don't think you'll eliminate it. As you say, the only good solution is to have enough available, reliable fast chargers that "how far to the next charger" isn't a constant concern on a road trip.
I completely agree. That's why I fear even 500 miles for trucks is probably useless and I fear that EV trucks might fizzle out. 500 EPA miles. Lose 1/3 at Freeway speeds, lose another 1/3 to the environment (cold, rain, wind, hills, etc.). Then cut that last 1/3 in half when you load it up and try to tow something. 500 miles quickly turns into 100 miles. Good for local trucking needs, but you won't even make it from Sacramento to Tahoe for a Ski winter.
Real world scenario. 2021 MS LR+ 402mi EPA range. Already lost ~5% of the capacity - the initial drop; now it is stable.
For battery longevity, you should stay within 20% - 90% range. So far, we are at about 65% of the stated EPA range.
Driving up the mountain in the winter (cold battery, snow, heated seats/cabin) and the real range goes from 402 EPA (as new) to ~200. Yes, there are chargers along the way but using them will put me into rush hour - 15 min charge will turn into an hour delay (I wish I had the luxury to time my trip exactly but I cannot). So, I barely make it. If I put a ski rack I will not be able to - a 3hr trip will easily turn into 5hrs.
So, yes, 500miles is needed, at least for my use case.
For battery longevity, you should stay within 20% - 90% range. So far, we are at about 65% of the stated EPA range.
Driving up the mountain in the winter (cold battery, snow, heated seats/cabin) and the real range goes from 402 EPA (as new) to ~200. Yes, there are chargers along the way but using them will put me into rush hour - 15 min charge will turn into an hour delay (I wish I had the luxury to time my trip exactly but I cannot). So, I barely make it. If I put a ski rack I will not be able to - a 3hr trip will easily turn into 5hrs.
So, yes, 500miles is needed, at least for my use case.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
While the charging characteristics are the way they are, then higher capacity remains a useful side effect of increased charge rate
Energy storage vs economy / frugality is not a new debate and I'm sure the pendulum will keep swinging between the two.
Since the pandemic started, I regularly drive between SJ and LA to visit elder parents. The drive is around 330 miles, 4.5-5 hours. With ICE, I don't need to stop; I can make that drive in one shot. With my new 2021 MS LR, I have to stop and charge for 20 minutes.
Personally, I'm down to upgrade/pay/spend for 500+ miles of range.
Personally, I'm down to upgrade/pay/spend for 500+ miles of range.
BTW this is another proof that advertised / EPA range of 405 miles is far less than 330 miles real world.
Terminator857
Active Member
Would be cool if we knew the roadmap for 4680. When are they going to sell cars stuffed to the max with those? Two years is my guess, for non performance version. Earlier for performance version.
Tesla daily estimates a major ramp of 4680 battery production by summer.
About 1:40 into the video
About 1:40 into the video
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Starting in San Jose at 100% on a summer night, I can get to the Copus Supercharger with 40-50 miles of range left. That would put my actual range around 295 miles. I'm going low 80s MPH on cruise control; speed limit is 70 MPH.
And starting in San Jose at 100% on a cold night, I barely got to the Buttonwillow Supercharger with 30 miles of range left. That would put my acutal range around 245 miles. I was going mid 80 MPH to 90 MPH on cruise control; speed limit is 70 MPH.
IMHO, at least with my driving style, range from 100% to 0% is closer to 270 miles.
With ICE (Honda Accord, BMW 320, Mazda 6), I can make that drive without a stop. I also have like 1/4 tank left and can last a weekend without pumping gas.
Yeah, I'd totally pay for more range.
Whenever Elon announces the Model S Long Range (not interested in paying for Plaid performance) with 500+ range, I'm down to put a deposit on it. Even if 500 miles of advertised range is probably closer to 350 miles of actual range, that means I only need to stop for a few minutes to pee versus a 20-30 minute stop.
That's exactly what I think.
a part from business trips (where the one way is feasible without stops, but with return it adds 30 - 40 mins which I would happily avoid), three times per year I travel from north to south Italy - 1.100 km. actually I need 4 stops of 20/30 mins each (speed 135 km/h - 85 mph) I'd love to make only 2 of 15/20 max each.
And in winter I'd love to go skying without "worries"...
I "need" a Lucid air range with a less luxury body and price
Terminator857
Active Member
Since charging has been getting faster, that seems very likely. If you can reach your destination before needing to charge then no need to stop for longer, just the usual charge while you sleep.
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