500 + Mile Range Debate

[KenBlub]

Just finished a 850 mile one way trip through all of WV part of the way in my 2023 Model 3 LR. Drove 77-78 MPH most of the way with AC on auto and set to 68. Averaged 4.1 miles per kWh. My battery is 78.8. 78.8 x 4.1 = 323 323/333 = 97% efficiency. Can’t imagine what is going on for someone to suggest 500 Tesla miles is 300 real world miles. Maybe my trip wasn’t real world miles

 

[Giampigua]

But we know that Tesla is the most efficient by a country mile... and we know that battery breakthroughs are incremental and take years to filter down to a car chassis....the only alternative is bigger batteries. More money for a heavier car with less internal room....or use the best charging network in the world

100 kWh battery is available in Tesla since 7 / 8 years. No battery improvements since then?
Elon believes that this is the optimal battery / range.
My conclusion is that if they wanted, they could offer a better battery with same weight.
Others (see audi/mercedes, for example) improved their battery since then

 

[Giampigua]

Just finished a 850 mile one way trip through all of WV part of the way in my 2023 Model 3 LR. Drove 77-78 MPH most of the way with AC on auto and set to 68. Averaged 4.1 miles per kWh. My battery is 78.8. 78.8 x 4.1 = 323 323/333 = 97% efficiency. Can’t imagine what is going on for someone to suggest 500 Tesla miles is 300 real world miles. Maybe my trip wasn’t real world miles

you don’t need to imagine: just read their explanations.

 

[terranx]

Just finished a 850 mile one way trip through all of WV part of the way in my 2023 Model 3 LR. Drove 77-78 MPH most of the way with AC on auto and set to 68. Averaged 4.1 miles per kWh. My battery is 78.8. 78.8 x 4.1 = 323 323/333 = 97% efficiency. Can’t imagine what is going on for someone to suggest 500 Tesla miles is 300 real world miles. Maybe my trip wasn’t real world miles

Let's see what you get on the return trip.

And I don't know what to tell you. 3 Teslas so far, all get about 2/3 rated range in real life.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

Let's see what you get on the return trip.

And I don't know what to tell you. 3 Teslas so far, all get about 2/3 rated range in real life.

Three Teslas, two MY LR AWD used for AZ~Cape Cod~AZ yearly trips. 70% of stated range at around 75 mph on the highway is about it.

Rich

 

[D Good]

Just finished a 850 mile one way trip through all of WV part of the way in my 2023 Model 3 LR. Drove 77-78 MPH most of the way with AC on auto and set to 68. Averaged 4.1 miles per kWh. My battery is 78.8. 78.8 x 4.1 = 323 323/333 = 97% efficiency. Can’t imagine what is going on for someone to suggest 500 Tesla miles is 300 real world miles. Maybe my trip wasn’t real world miles

You do not have 78.8 KWh of actual usable capacity. In the absolute best case when the car was brand new you had around 75 KWh.
Further, you have to take into account degradation.
For example:
My car is a 2021 LR 3. It has the very slightly smaller battery than yours, usable capacity when new was 74kWh. Original rated range was 353 miles (which is completely ridiculously impossible). Now, 3 years into use, I can only get 64KWh out of the battery. This is an insane 15% degradation after just 48k miles.

More range is always better. Always. There is no reasonable argument that we could not put a “500 mile” EV to use. “500” Tesla miles is equivalent to ~350 on the highway (which is practically the place where range matters the most), and then factoring in degradation it only gets worse.

500 miles is the number. 300 ain’t it. 300 real-world at 80mph? Now that I can get with.

 

[SalisburySam]

300 real-world at 80mph, in winter, going uphill, in a snowstorm, with headwinds, trailering an RV, with studded tires? Now that I can get with.

FTFY.

 

[Bouba]

You do not have 78.8 KWh of actual usable capacity. In the absolute best case when the car was brand new you had around 75 KWh.
Further, you have to take into account degradation.
For example:
My car is a 2021 LR 3. It has the very slightly smaller battery than yours, usable capacity when new was 74kWh. Original rated range was 353 miles (which is completely ridiculously impossible). Now, 3 years into use, I can only get 64KWh out of the battery. This is an insane 15% degradation after just 48k miles.

More range is always better. Always. There is no reasonable argument that we could not put a “500 mile” EV to use. “500” Tesla miles is equivalent to ~350 on the highway (which is practically the place where range matters the most), and then factoring in degradation it only gets worse.

500 miles is the number. 300 ain’t it. 300 real-world at 80mph? Now that I can get with.

My 2021 MiC M3LR with LG74.5 charged today to 100% 525 km (328 miles) 3% degradation.
And these are real world kilometers....my road trip today was mostly freeways upto 130 kph (over 80 mph) and I was doing a lot less than EPA....so I definitely could have done over 500 km (313 miles)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

More range is always better. Always.

Especially without Superchargers! Gonna need all the range we can get.

 

[Bouba]

My 2021 MiC M3LR with LG74.5 charged today to 100% 525 km (328 miles) 3% degradation.
And these are real world kilometers....my road trip today was mostly freeways upto 130 kph (over 80 mph) and I was doing a lot less than EPA....so I definitely could have done over 500 km (313 miles)

That should read...I was doing better than EPA

 

[KenBlub]

You do not have 78.8 KWh of actual usable capacity. In the absolute best case when the car was brand new you had around 75 KWh.
Further, you have to take into account degradation.
For example:
My car is a 2021 LR 3. It has the very slightly smaller battery than yours, usable capacity when new was 74kWh. Original rated range was 353 miles (which is completely ridiculously impossible). Now, 3 years into use, I can only get 64KWh out of the battery. This is an insane 15% degradation after just 48k miles.

More range is always better. Always. There is no reasonable argument that we could not put a “500 mile” EV to use. “500” Tesla miles is equivalent to ~350 on the highway (which is practically the place where range matters the most), and then factoring in degradation it only gets worse.

500 miles is the number. 300 ain’t it. 300 real-world at 80mph? Now that I can get with.

Thanks. My FPWN was 78.8. You are correct that that without using the lower buffer it’s closer to 75kw. My original rated range was 333 miles. I’ve used a low SOC strategy. I charged to 100% for the first time ever and it said my range was 332 miles. An energy screen calculation confirms this

To be clear, early on degradation is a function of time and not mileage. What is your daily charging limit. 80%

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This is an insane 15% degradation after just 48k miles

Yeah this is really high as posted elsewhere. Your vehicle has just ~304 miles at 100% now, 67kWh! (And those are super low energy miles relative to older cars!) Usually see this with high mileage cars (not the case here) or ones kept most/all of the time at 80/90% in warmer climates.

Much more typical to see 8-10% at your point. And that is with higher average SOC - with low SOC maybe could see 6-7%?

Definitely an outlier. Bad luck?

 

[D Good]

Yeah this is really high as posted elsewhere. Your vehicle has just ~304 miles at 100% now, 67kWh! (And those are super low energy miles relative to older cars!) Usually see this with high mileage cars (not the case here) or ones kept most/all of the time at 80/90% in warmer climates.

Much more typical to see 8-10% at your point. And that is with higher average SOC - with low SOC maybe could see 6-7%?

Definitely an outlier. Bad luck?

I guess it’s just bad luck. Who knows. The only thing that could possibly explain it is that I don’t have a garage and park outside. It’s coastal North Carolina so it’s not extreme or anything.
It sucks but oh well. Hopefully it stops declining more.

The weird thing is at some point, would it not be to your benefit to destroy the battery? There is a 120k 8 year warranty for (an extremely low I must say) 70% capacity. If you somehow find yourself 6 years in with 75% capacity, should you just supercharge to 100% like every day to insure you get a new battery lol? Just something to think about.

 

[D Good]

My 2021 MiC M3LR with LG74.5 charged today to 100% 525 km (328 miles) 3% degradation.
And these are real world kilometers....my road trip today was mostly freeways upto 130 kph (over 80 mph) and I was doing a lot less than EPA....so I definitely could have done over 500 km (313 miles)

This is not the right way to calculate degradation. You have to actually drive the car 100% to zero percent (you could also just use 50% of the battery and double it, but this is less accurate) and see how many kWh you pulled. My car (the one discussed above with extreme degradation) still says I should have 323 miles of range. However, this is completely false based on the number of KWh I pulled 100 to 0.

 

[D Good]

Thanks. My FPWN was 78.8. You are correct that that without using the lower buffer it’s closer to 75kw. My original rated range was 333 miles. I’ve used a low SOC strategy. I charged to 100% for the first time ever and it said my range was 332 miles. An energy screen calculation confirms this

To be clear, early on degradation is a function of time and not mileage. What is your daily charging limit. 80%

It was 90 when they recommended that. Immediately switched to 80 when they changed their recommendation.

 

[jjrandorin]

should you just supercharge to 100% like every day to insure you get a new battery lol? Just something to think about.

That should read "should you just supercharge to 100% like every day to insure you get a new battery replacement refurbished battery only guaranteed to have the range your battery had before it failed.

https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf

You have to actually drive the car 100% to zero percent (you could also just use 50% of the battery and double it, but this is less accurate) and see how many kWh you pulled

Perhaps I missed it, but you did this from 100% to 0 in one drive, (and the car stopped moving) right? Otherwise, thats not giving you the number of kWh your car has.

 

[D Good]

That should read "should you just supercharge to 100% like every day to insure you get a new battery replacement refurbished battery only guaranteed to have the range your battery had before it failed.

https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf

Perhaps I missed it, but you did this from 100% to 0 in one drive, (and the car stopped moving) right? Otherwise, thats not giving you the number of kWh your car has.

Drove past 0, but would never drive until the car stops moving. There are not enough chargers around for that.