75 and 75D variants increased performance from July 1st - software and hardware improvements?

[croman]

I ordered definitely mid June. Delivery is end august/begin September.

You should get the updated hardware.

 

[dhanson865]

Well, my one-week old 75D will not be much different than the Model 3. I just wasted $40k!! Thanks Elon.

Don't rule out the possibility that they gave you the new hardware and you are just waiting on a software update to unlock the full potential.

It's possible you are one week before or one week after the change (or some larger amount).

Wait for a new firmware thread to show up for the performance update and then test your car after you get that firmware. You might be pleasantly surprised or you might still be upset, but don't give up hope yet.

 

[dhanson865]

Why start a new thread then it is already a long discussion about it?

0-60 Times

The other thread had a generic thread title, no reason to look into it if you've been on TMC for years.

The two need to be merged with the combination getting this threads title.

 

[wdolson]

This is an interesting thread, and leaves me, like many a bit confused. I have a 6 month old 60D that Iupgraded to 75D a couple months ago. I have over 10K miles on it including a 2000 mile trip to the beach in NC and Back with 4 passengers, which was just fine - especially with AP most of the way.

My son and I noticed that the acceleration of the car feels more peppy since I upgraded to 75D. It may be in our head? What confuses me is the 90D and 75D have the same internal workings other than the battery. The inverter is the same, dual motors are the same, no? What hardware differences are there between the 75D and 90D that allow for the better performance of the 90D or is it surrently only software? If so, then what will Tesla charge for a software upgrade? If not, c’est La vie. I would have loved the better performance, but could not justify the price difference. Currently my MS is our family car and it’s awesome! I’m still holding on to the M3 reservation to see what will be available next year when we are in need of a new vehicle..

The 75D has 6216 battery cells, the 90D had 7104. Each cell can only provide so much current at one time safely. With more cells, the pack can provide more peak current .

You get the codes by looking at the link for 'view spec' in My Tesla.

DU01 is new. See discussion here: New 0-60 Times caused by new drive unit it seems...

On my My Tesla page, there is no link for "view spec". The only time the word "view" shows up on the page is down in the referral program area in "View past referral Programs". It must be something they have started since I bought my car a year ago.

 

[whitex]

Now having thought about this I am already planning on using the Easter egg that allows you to turn it into any other model, I can tell you now I'll be turning mine down into a 60 or 70 as 4.1 seconds is probably too quick for my driving style and I am no Lewis Hamilton I know that.

Why? Is your foot somehow challenged or you drive impaired often (i.e. you can only press accelerator all the way or take your foot off the pedal), or is it that you just cannot control yourself from accelerating? If not, why would you care to limit your car's top end acceleration, rather than just don't accelerate harder than you want? You can drive even a P100D as slow as you desire.

 

[whitex]

The delivery centre then rang me this morning to confirm my collection and I thought I'd ask about the 0-60 thing and low and behold I get that too!!! So as it turns out in my case some you win and err some you win?!

You may want to ask for that in writing. Tesla deliver and sales have been known to lie to make a sale or simply be misinformed, then once you take deliver, oups, sorry, here is a free Keychain.

People have in the past paid $10K to $20K for the "P" which added nothing more than 1s 0-60, so it is quiet likely Tesla is afraid a number of people will just cancel their order and forego their deposit just to get a faster car. I bet if you polled current 75 owners, a large percentage would agree to pay an extra $2,500 for a 1s speed upgrade, which means the same percentage would likely cancel and re-order if they had the option.

 

[wdolson]

Because its expected that from one year to another there might be a change but every 3 months is ridicules. Buying a car model one month and paying a premium and it being discontinued less than 3 months and its values plummet is plain stupid. Having cars in the same year with different front ends is stupid, Paying $2000 for a glass roof a month ago and now its included free is stupid. Buying a car with a 90k battery and then for the same price you can get a $100k battery is stupid. Buying a car because FREE Supercharging is going away and then a month later its back is stupid. While I am sure some will disagree and call it progress the way they run quarterly changes to keep sales going while alienating their existing customers is just plain stupid. Just my opinion whether you agree or not.

While it is disappointing to have Tesla come out with some new tech right after you bought, it really doesn't hurt resale value much. Most used car buyers know they are buying behind the tech curve and they really aren't that bothered by it.

If you look at information on resale value of cars, most EVs and most high end luxury cars have horrible resale value. The BMW 7 series and Mercedes S class are among the fastest depreciating cars on the market and the used car market is flooded with Nissan Leafs for under $20K. There are even a fair number of Leafs available for under $10K.

On the other hand, Teslas tend to hold their value much better than most cars they are usually compared to (other expensive luxury cars and other EVs). The only Model Ss you can find out there under $50K are very early production cars which have a bad reputation for problems. The pre-refresh 2016 90Ds are in the $80K-$90K range on the used market.

My car was built a few months before AP2 was announced and there have been a few other improvements since, but frankly it isn't that big a deal. I wouldn't mind having a bigger battery, it would make it easier to drive as fast as I want and skip more superchargers on road trips, but for most of my driving, I rarely get below 200 miles range remaining, so a 90D is perfectly adequate.

Basically the only thing that might be better than an older Tesla is a newer one. This was a massively expensive thing for me. My first house cost less than this car and it's 5X more than any car I've ever bought. It also stretched my budget quite a bit. But I appreciate what I have. If I could get a new one for free, I wouldn't turn it down, but I'm happy with what I have. I'm not entitled to have the latest and greatest, I'm only owed what I paid for, which is what was on sale in mid-2016.

 

[whitex]

Nice, I just got the same confirmation on the Phone!

Anyone got it in writing? It wouldn't be the first time Tesla stretched the truth (or even instructed their OA's and DS's to stretch the truth - like with EAP being on par with AP1 in December'16. They wouldn't put it down in writing though when I was ordering our AP2 car).

 

[whitex]

To the larger point of yearly update cycles versus how Tesla does them, I much prefer the yearly cycles that have become the norm in the rest of the automotive industry.

Because its expected that from one year to another there might be a change but every 3 months is ridicules. Buying a car model one month and paying a premium and it being discontinued less than 3 months and its values plummet is plain stupid.

I have a solution for all those who prefer yearly changes with prior notification. I'm starting a great BEV vehicle called the Edison. There is an Edison S and Edison X, soon Edison 3. It looks and has the exact same specs as Model S, X, and 3 respectively, but as of January 1st the previous year. So, today's Edison S is identical (except for the badging of course) to Model S as speced on Jan 1st, 2016. Edison has fully transparent road map too, on January 1st 2018 the specs will be identical to Tesla spec January 2017. All that for only $30K over Tesla MSRP, but can you really put a price on stability? Taking pre-orders now.

 

[whitex]

Because its expected that from one year to another there might be a change but every 3 months is ridicules. Buying a car model one month and paying a premium and it being discontinued less than 3 months and its values plummet is plain stupid.

Unless you plan to sell your car after 3 months, why would you care? Typical leases are 3 years. After 3 years, it really won't matter much. If you don't believe be, check out prices on 3 year old Tesla with AP1 vs. no AP at all, there is no discernible difference (heck, 21" wheels make more price difference than AP vs. no AP). Or, compare S85 vs P85 CPO prices, there is an acceleration difference so it may be more representative (though P has a different designation, so for some it's worth more because it shows).

 

[BBB4000]

I think people just aren't use to it. It actually makes sense. Why would you want to handicap your car company by waiting a year to improve your car? Just so it's easier for people to keep up with the Jonses?

Ah, if all Tesla did was improve the car over the year this wouldn't be a discussion. Much of the angst from consumers comes from the fact that Tesla is constantly adjusting options and pricing - independent of the introduction of any new features or technology. Things that were once standard (think power liftgate) become an option, and then become standard again. This has nothing to do with handicapping a car company. Tesla tries squeeze every last dollar out of their sales. And when they see things aren't working they tweak their formula with brazen disregard for their past customers. THAT is the problem.

 

[Mediocrates]

And when they see things aren't working they tweak their formula with brazen disregard for their past customers. THAT is the problem.

Purchase is a temporally fixed process.

If you are purchasing a product, you are a customer.
If you purchased a product, you were a customer.

No business sells products to past customers. They sell products to current customers. Note this is a temporal distinction, not a mutually exclusive categorical distinction. Avoid that equivocation.

 

[whitex]

Purchase is a temporally fixed process.

If you are purchasing a product, you are a customer.
If you purchased a product, you were a customer.

No business sells products to past customers. They sell products to current customers. Note this is a temporal distinction, not a mutually exclusive categorical distinction. Avoid that equivocation.

So by your definitions, warranty services are never owed to current customers, only ex-customers? Customer Service then is also not for current owners, right? Customer satisfaction metrics only reflect the views of people in the process of purchasing a product, so you if the cars blow up the day after delivery, that cannot possibly count towards customer satisfaction? Also, do you consider advertising as selling? If yes, then your first sentence is incorrect, since businesses advertise to non-customers and past customers. Lastly, by your definition sales and customer support are the same thing (since sales deals with selling and once you purchased the product you are no longer a customer therefore customer support does not apply to you), so why do companies have separate divisions for those? I think maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere in your reasoning.

 

[Bluejuice]

You may want to ask for that in writing. Tesla deliver and sales have been known to lie to make a sale or simply be misinformed, then once you take deliver, oups, sorry, here is a free Keychain.

People have in the past paid $10K to $20K for the "P" which added nothing more than 1s 0-60, so it is quiet likely Tesla is afraid a number of people will just cancel their order and forego their deposit just to get a faster car. I bet if you polled current 75 owners, a large percentage would agree to pay an extra $2,500 for a 1s speed upgrade, which means the same percentage would likely cancel and re-order if they had the option.

What did Tesla do to piss you off? Tesla has never "lied" to me or in public as far as I know. They may not give you all the information you want to hear, but that is not lying. I think Tesla and Elon Musk have actually been way more forthcoming than most companies.

 

[Mickie]

What I would do if I was running Tesla is give some extra performance (if possible) via software only to the 75/75D's. This would incentivize current 60/60D's to splurge on the 75 upgrade.

I'd be down

 

[Mediocrates]

So by your definitions, warranty services are never owed to current customers, only ex-customers? Customer Service then is also not for current owners, right? Customer satisfaction metrics only reflect the views of people in the process of purchasing a product, so you if the cars blow up the day after delivery, that cannot possibly count towards customer satisfaction? Also, do you consider advertising as selling? If yes, then your first sentence is incorrect, since businesses advertise to non-customers and past customers. Lastly, by your definition sales and customer support are the same thing (since sales deals with selling and once you purchased the product you are no longer a customer therefore customer support does not apply to you), so why do companies have separate divisions for those? I think maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere in your reasoning.

I understand your confusion, as it stems from equivocation of terms. Substituting meaning/definition of a more colloquial/broad sense for things like "customer," "purchase," and "sale" will lead to the erroneous conclusions you have identified. There's nothing inherently wrong/incorrect with those definitions, but they are not appropriate in the specific temporal context I described.

A purchase/sale is a fixed point in time. A customer performs the act of purchase in present tense; a business performs the act of selling in present tense. Once the purchase is complete, the purchasing party is no longer a customer and the business is no longer selling to that party. The role boundaries become more clear when considering the purchase process when doing so at a physical retail establishment, so think about that lifecycle. Reconsider the questions/conclusions you posed with these strict definitions. If something still seems unclear, we can further dissect it.

 

[whitex]

What did Tesla do to piss you off? Tesla has never "lied" to me or in public as far as I know. They may not give you all the information you want to hear, but that is not lying. I think Tesla and Elon Musk have actually been way more forthcoming than most companies.

Couple examples off the top of my head, I'm curious what you'd call these if not a "lie":
1. They sold me a flagship car with 691hp and delivered 463hp. When I pointed out to the sales person during a test drive that the car's power meter doesn't even go high enough in KW equivalent, he pointed me to the design Studio note how a "improved passing speed" over the air update is coming - Elon said 691hp so it must be true. So I believed and I shelled out over $100K for a car which would need to produce close to 50% more power to meet the spec. In Norway by the way, Tesla settled with the P85D owners. I got no such settlement offer in the US.
2. They sold me a car which claimed to have 85KWh battery, yet it turns out it was am 81KWh battery of which only 77 are usable. And yes, the spec of the car said 85KWh battery, so I am not extrapolating from the model number designation.

There are more examples, some of which didn't affect me directly, but some did, the ones above are just the 2 largest that did affect me.

So when you say they never "lied" in public, what do you call the 2 examples above? Rounding errors maybe (463 rounds to 691 somehow, and 81 rounds to 85, by whose math)? Some Tesla fan-boys will argue those are not lies, that the motors are capable of 691hp but not the rest of the car, or that the battery casing can technically hold 85KWh (since newer batteries held that and more in the same frame in later cars like S90). If you are one of those and will argue that the above were not lies, you will also argue that anyone who was told they were getting 4.2s car will not be able to say Tesla lied if they end up getting the original 75D - most of the car capable, just not all of it. Hence, I recommend getting things in writing.

 

[Bullet1]

Although the unexpected random upgrades are annoying, in reality, we have Tesla to thank for forcing other manufacturers to the realisation that EVs are a more viable and practical solution for future transportation. If not for the constant improvements then interest and publicity would drop off. A few years ago who would have thought an EV would be one of the quickest production cars in the World? This can't happen without change and some disappointed historical purchasers. Does this mean I am leaving the Tesla fold. No I am more likely to plan ahead and upgrade when the numbers work for me.

Keep the changes coming IMO.

 

[whitex]

I understand your confusion, as it stems from equivocation of terms. Substituting meaning/definition of a more colloquial/broad sense for things like "customer," "purchase," and "sale" will lead to the erroneous conclusions you have identified. There's nothing inherently wrong/incorrect with those definitions, but they are not appropriate in the specific temporal context I described.

A purchase/sale is a fixed point in time. A customer performs the act of purchase in present tense; a business performs the act of selling in present tense. Once the purchase is complete, the purchasing party is no longer a customer and the business is no longer selling to that party. The role boundaries become more clear when considering the purchase process when doing so at a physical retail establishment, so think about that lifecycle. Reconsider the questions/conclusions you posed with these strict definitions. If something still seems unclear, we can further dissect it.

So your argument is that everyone but you is using the word "customer" incorrectly when naming their departments "customer support" or stating the size of their "customer base". Ok then.

 

[Swift]

I understand your confusion, as it stems from equivocation of terms. Substituting meaning/definition of a more colloquial/broad sense for things like "customer," "purchase," and "sale" will lead to the erroneous conclusions you have identified. There's nothing inherently wrong/incorrect with those definitions, but they are not appropriate in the specific temporal context I described.

A purchase/sale is a fixed point in time. A customer performs the act of purchase in present tense; a business performs the act of selling in present tense. Once the purchase is complete, the purchasing party is no longer a customer and the business is no longer selling to that party. The role boundaries become more clear when considering the purchase process when doing so at a physical retail establishment, so think about that lifecycle. Reconsider the questions/conclusions you posed with these strict definitions. If something still seems unclear, we can further dissect it.

So for the customer who purchased FSD but Tesla has yet to deliver it, you're saying they are no longer a customer. I disagree. The lifecycle is not complete. The goods have not been received in full.