Advice on choosing 75 or 100

[aslam]

@aslam, not sure if you are familiar with applications such as PlugShare. They will give you an additional information about charging options around you. Many shopping malls (such as Whole Foods in US) have L2 chargers operated by ChargePoint or other providers. You have ChargePoint, FLO and others in Canada.

I guess it would be a tough sell for the landlord to install dedicated charger, but it could be worth the shot.

@arcus Yeah I'm lucky enough to get the 110V. I live in a condo and the Strata Council (equivalent to an HOA for the Americans) has set up a committee to explore installing dedicated charging stations in the parking garage. They also have been tasked with figuring out how to solve the turnover challenge in a residential parking garage so that if they have more EVs than dedicated charging stations, everyone gets equal charging time. In the meanwhile they are authorizing 3 tenants to get 110V ports installed at their parking stall. Luckily I got the #3 slot on that list. But I had the Strata's electrician look at my stall's location to see if he could put in 220V and he said it would be impossible. So I'm stuck with 110V for now. But until that committee reports back to council and they make a decision, there will be no dedicated charger. And that likely won't happen for at least 6 months to a year.

 

[Doug_G]

110V charging is barely adequate in summer, and even then only if your mileage is limited.

If you experience sub-zero temperatures in your condo garage you will get less range than you expect. It may only be 2-3 km per hour at freezing temperatures. In extreme cold you will get no charging whatsoever.

 

[aslam]

Back in the day there were 40's, 60's, and 85's. I definitely appreciated having the 85, and even in worst-case driving conditions I never came close to running out of juice in town. On two days ever I used up most (but not all) of the 85 pack without leaving town, but those were seriously major outliers in terms of car usage. (And I started at 90% charge.)

In Canada a 40 pack would have been a big mistake. A 65 pack would sometimes be limiting, IMHO. Anything above 85 is definitely not limiting at all.

Chances are a 75 pack would be sufficient in Vancouver, since you don't get the extreme cold that we do. That said, if you head off into the mountains then you might need more.

Upshot: A 75 would not be a mistake. It might on rare occasions mean that you need a mid-day charge, but with due care probably not.

Thanks for the thoughts. Yeah Vancouver doesn't get the extreme weather that Ottawa does. My step-brother has a 75D in Vancouver and even during winter when his efficiency has gone down to 60%, he's OK with a 75. However he only drives about 55KM per day. I wish they still offered an 85. That would be the perfect balance. 75 feels a bit too limiting and 100 is more than I need.

And to respond to your other message, thankfully my condo garage doesn't get down to sub-zero. It is usually at least 10 degrees or above.

 

[aslam]

Hi Aslam

We've had our 60 for three years now, and live on the North Shore

Personally, range anxiety or battery envy has never happened to us, though initially we thought it might. We can charge at home at 40A/240V so are fortunate in that respect - but could easily make do with 15A/120V

You'll probably be fine with your commute, but I'd see you cursing not being able to jump in the car and tootle off at short notice

Whilst a larger battery may seem to be the solution, don't forget that you still need to 'fill' it

Have you tried speaking to the Strata association to see if they would consider allowing you to fit a high current charger in your garage, or even if your employer could do the same where you work?

I'm actually in North Van also. I am concerned I'll have range anxiety but it's good to know that a 60 has been OK for you.

I did write a more detailed message about the Strata situation further down on this thread. The Coles Notes version is that they are looking at setting up high voltage charging stations in the building but that won't happen for at least 6 months to a year (or more). Therefore I'm stuck with 110V/15A for now. Work is in Surrey in an industrial park so unlikely to get anything there either. Maybe something when the office moves to Surrey Central in 6 months but no guarantee it'll be in our building. So it is a bit of a quandary. If only there was an 85 option, that would make the decision easy.

Anyways, thanks for the real North Shore perspective.

 

[aslam]

hi @aslam

I've owned my 70D for just over 2 years now, here in Vancouver. My car is one of the original 70kW ones, not the ones that could be software-unlocked to 75kW. I only have 120V charging at home (+6km rated range/hr) but I supplement that with public 240V L2 charging around town when convenient and if I'm going somewhere anyhow that has a charger in their parking lot. As others have mentioned, Plugshare is your friend, and you'll find a lot of free public charging options in the Lower Mainland - (I'm familiar with quite a few, particularly near downtown, just ask...)

Aside from the free DC fast charger you mentioned near to you, for other public L2 charging, be sure to sign up for a free ChargePoint account, and also a free FLO account - many of the networked public chargers are on those two networks (there are also other non-networked chargers that you simply plug in to use). ChargePoint also offeres a free RFID card, but FLO wants $15 for theirs. But be sure to also get their free smartphone apps - those are also an easy way to activate a charge. (ChargePoint stations can also be activated via Apple Watch)

Of course 240V charging at home is the best solution, but 120V is managable if your daily mileage is low and you can supplement with public charging. BTW, the City of Vancouver's website I believe has some resources for owners trying to convince their strata to install EV chargers; the city has also launched a trial/pilot program for "curbside" charging

At the time I purchased my Model S, the only larger battery option was 85kW - but based on my expected daily driving mileage (perhaps half of yours, typically) I could not justify the extra cost of bigger battery vs equipping the car with the other options I really wanted - I am still fine my choice 2yrs later. If money were no object then of course I'd pick a larger battery.

I've taken road trips in my 70D from here to the Bay Area CA, the Okanagan (summer only), plus Whistler, Seattle and Oregon, several times. No problems/concerns with range. Whenever possible when traveling, I try to stay at hotels that offer destination charging, or are near a Supercharger. Of course, in winter the car's range is affected but it's not that bad here on the west coast compared to other parts of the country - if you were planning frequent winter trips to the Okanagan for example, perhaps a bigger battery is a good idea. I don't take frequent long road trips, but if I did so frequently, perhaps again a bigger battery would be more of a priority.

Since my daily driving mileage is low, I typically only charge to about 65-70% overnight at home. I don't know if that's a factor but in the 2 years since I bought the car, it's battery capacity hasn't decreased at all, the rated range at 90% (347km) or 100% (386km) is same as when I purchased it. I've Supercharged the car on road trips perhaps about 40 times total in 2 years.

any other questions about my experience with the 70D or tips on local L2 charging options, just ask

Thanks for the good lower mainland perspective. I will PM you to get some of your tips. You bring up a good point that there is more and more public charging infrastructure coming up around Vancouver. If I do for he 75, I can hope to rely on that a bunch.

Good to hear that you've been able to go on a few trips with your 70 and not had any issues. I wonder what it would be like to go to the Okanagan in Winter. I know there is a Supercharger in Hope and Merit. How long would I have to add to my trip to allow time to top up there, I wonder.

Thanks for the detailed info on the apps/services. I'm waiting till I put my order in and then I'm going to sign up for them all!

 

[Scott_K]

I was recently struggling with the same decision. I ended up deciding on the 100D for the following reasons:

1. The range loss during the winter months (although this likely affects you considerably less in Vancouver)
2. I used EVTripPlanner to map out a few longer road trips I’m planning on taking with the new car. I compared the necessary charging stops with the 75D vs the 100D and the extra capacity made a pretty significant difference. For example, one long (1800 mile) trip I’ll be doing this summer would take 26 charging stops (total of 7 hours charging) with the 75D vs. 18 stops (5 hours charging) with the 100D.

One option that would potentially save you some money on a 100D model would be to look at inventory models with some miles on them. Even lightly used test drive cars (eg: 1000-1500 km in Canada) often come with a pretty significant price adjustment at delivery compared to newly configured models (one I looked at recently had a 25,000 CAD adjustment with 1800 km on it).

 

[brkaus]

Thanks for the range numbers. Those are really helpful in range modelling to know what real world/actual range has been for someone.

Also super thanks for the suggestion about the Quick220. I didn't know that existed or was even possible. I've looked it up and sent the info to the electrician who will be doing the install of the plug in my condo's parking garage to see if he can put two plugs that are on different circuits/phases. Fingers crossed that he can. If so, then that will make life much easier and take me out of the daily deficit.

If your having an electrician install something, just have them put in a 14-50 (or 14-30 or 6-20). Don't muck around with a quick220 unless you have no other option.

 

[aslam]

I was recently struggling with the same decision. I ended up deciding on the 100D for the following reasons:

1. The range loss during the winter months (although this likely affects you considerably less in Vancouver)
2. I used EVTripPlanner to map out a few longer road trips I’m planning on taking with the new car. I compared the necessary charging stops with the 75D vs the 100D and the extra capacity made a pretty significant difference. For example, one long (1800 mile) trip I’ll be doing this summer would take 26 charging stops (total of 7 hours charging) with the 75D vs. 18 stops (5 hours charging) with the 100D.

One option that would potentially save you some money on a 100D model would be to look at inventory models with some miles on them. Even lightly used test drive cars (eg: 1000-1500 km in Canada) often come with a pretty significant price adjustment at delivery compared to newly configured models (one I looked at recently had a 25,000 CAD adjustment with 1800 km on it).

@Scott_K Good tip on using EVTripPlanner. I will try that.

As for inventory, I asked my OA about that but he said that the demo fleet is currently locked because the next month or two the Tesla factory will be producing vehicles for Europe and Asia and so there won't be any more deliveries to the retail outlets. Therefore they can't sell any of their current demo fleet. But maybe I'll ask him about that closer to my delivery time and see if I can get something on a deal.

 

[aslam]

If your having an electrician install something, just have them put in a 14-50 (or 14-30 or 6-20). Don't muck around with a quick220 unless you have no other option.

@brkaus Unfortunately he has no other option than a standard 110V/15A due to the location of my parking stall (P3) in relation to the electrical room (P1 and opposite side of building).

 

[Not1Drop]

Don't forget, unless something has changed recently, you'll need to tack on a few hundred extra to buy the CHAdeMO adapter....it doesn't normally come with the car.
While the 75 may be fine, I'd still go along with the other posters that mentioned not needing the extra 25, until you found that you did need it.
Another thought is your plan to charge faithfully each night for 9 hours to have just enough for most of the week. What about the evenings you don't get back till later. Or get home and would like to go out but decide not to just because you desperately need the extra 6 - 12 km over two hours at the movies...
I agree there is a large price difference, it was a huge budget stretch for us to get our 85D. However, even the 75 is quite expensive and how often are you potentially going to find yourself cursing being a slave to your charging regime\habits. With a purchase this costly, would it not also be worth considering how happy you'll be with the purchase in the first place? While the 75 may be enough, or suitable for your needs.... For the amount you're spending shouldn't you be happy too?
With your limited charge options at home and work, use Plugshare and plug in every time you have a chance. Stopping somewhere for a bite and there is a charger available for the 30 or 40 minutes? Take advantage of it and be less reliant on the 110v charge at home. For long trips EVTripPlanner is great. Granted with our 85D we had no problem just using Superchargers all the way from North of Toronto to Key West and back last March and the first three days of the drive the cold chased us most of the way south.

 

[brkaus]

@brkaus Unfortunately he has no other option than a standard 110V/15A due to the location of my parking stall (P3) in relation to the electrical room (P1 and opposite side of building).

I suggest you double check if possible. A 240v 15a circuit should cost no more than a 120v 15a circuit. Same wiring, just a different plug (6-15) and different breaker pair in the box. The gen2 charger has a 6-15 adaptor available.

Unless your saying the wire is already there. If multiple outlets on a single circuit, watch out. Could easily trip a breaker. If single outlet pet circuit, might possibly be able to switch to 240.

 

[ytwytw]

If you can afford, definitely go for 100D

It makes you so much more confident on the road.

100D also has dual onboard charger, faster to charge with 72Amp Level 2 at lots of places.

With 100D, you feel more comfortable to turn on heater/AC as they eat up battery for a fair amount.

At supercharger, you gain more energy and range for same amount of the time of charging, saving time and get back to road faster

 

[Gen3]

I suggest you double check if possible. A 240v 15a circuit should cost no more than a 120v 15a circuit. Same wiring, just a different plug (6-15) and different breaker pair in the box. The gen2 charger has a 6-15 adaptor available.

Unless your saying the wire is already there. If multiple outlets on a single circuit, watch out. Could easily trip a breaker. If single outlet pet circuit, might possibly be able to switch to 240.

if that doesn't work you could ask about 110v 20amps.

 

[TexasEV]

If you can afford, definitely go for 100D

It makes you so much more confident on the road.

100D also has dual onboard charger, faster to charge with 72Amp Level 2 at lots of places.

With 100D, you feel more comfortable to turn on heater/AC as they eat up battery for a fair amount.

At supercharger, you gain more energy and range for same amount of the time of charging, saving time and get back to road faster

Minor correction, the 100D does not have a “dual charger”, it’s a single 72 A charger. The dual charger was an option in the early Model S, which came with one 40A charger and had an option for a second 40A charger. Now there is only one charger and it’s either 48A or 72A.

 

[arcus]

@arcus Yeah I'm lucky enough to get the 110V. I live in a condo and the Strata Council (equivalent to an HOA for the Americans) has set up a committee to explore installing dedicated charging stations in the parking garage. They also have been tasked with figuring out how to solve the turnover challenge in a residential parking garage so that if they have more EVs than dedicated charging stations, everyone gets equal charging time. In the meanwhile they are authorizing 3 tenants to get 110V ports installed at their parking stall. Luckily I got the #3 slot on that list. But I had the Strata's electrician look at my stall's location to see if he could put in 220V and he said it would be impossible. So I'm stuck with 110V for now. But until that committee reports back to council and they make a decision, there will be no dedicated charger. And that likely won't happen for at least 6 months to a year.

At least you have a dedicated outlet for your car! The only time it might not be sufficient for trickle charging is when the temperatures fall rapidly (winter). The car might require quite some juice to keep the battery pack in optimal condition (by default it will try to draw it from the outlet before tapping into its own reserves). Just something to be aware of and be prepared for in case you need an extra range for the day.

 

[Gen3]

At least you have a dedicated outlet for your car! The only time it might not be sufficient for trickle charging is when the temperatures fall rapidly (winter). The car might require quite some juice to keep the battery pack in optimal condition (by default it will try to draw it from the outlet before tapping into its own reserves). Just something to be aware of and be prepared for in case you need an extra range for the day.

2 weeks ago i was in ottawa and got 4km/hr charging outside in minus 20, when I'd normally get 6km/hr in a 110v circuit. If the op has a heated garage it will definitely still charge as well as heat the battery.

 

[arcus]

2 weeks ago i was in ottawa and got 4km/hr charging outside in minus 20, when I'd normally get 6km/hr in a 110v circuit. If the op has a heated garage it will definitely still charge as well as heat the battery.

Looks like it is just a parking stall. Good to know that in the garage it actually provides sufficient charge!

 

[Sawyer8888]

I drive about 75KM per day on weekdays (to/from work) and a bit more on weekends.

In my opinion, this is an all-or-nothing scenario.

The concern is how little will be added each time you charge at home. The distance you regularly drive each weekday (75KM/47M) is really not the problem - but it does help reduce your charging issue.

I doubt I would consider purchasing a Tesla if I was to be inconvenienced with having to slowly charge on a standard outlet as a primary source. Regularly driving to a remote charging station gets old fast - especially when that location is full.

If you start the week with a fully-charged 100D, then there really is no inconvenience - except for the larger monthly car payment. With a 75D, there will be an inconvenience until you can do better than trickle-charge at your home. Is the lower cost of the 75D worth the aggravation/inconvenience of being forced to:

• stay home vs. go to the office
• forego a night out with friends
• pay for a taxi
• Sit idle at a charging station while charging or until one becomes available

If you think you can put up with some of these things, among others not mentioned, then the 75D will work just fine until your condo installs more powerful outlets. Otherwise, purchase the 100D or lease something else for a while.

 

[arcus]

You will have the same issue with 100 as well - you just defer inevitable that the car has to be charged at some point. If you are not making regular long-distance trips then the extra battery capacity is just a dead weight.

I guess it is ultimately up to @aslam to decide between 75 or 100

 

[jelloslug]

I have a 75D and I have been happy with the range so far (37k miles). I certainly would not have turned down the 100D version but it has not been an issue so far.