and for a record, I do own a small number of Tesla stocks which I plan to hold until I retire. I do not have any short position but that shouldn't stop me from doing the right thing... money will come and go in life, but the ethical value is what's going to define you.
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After what time has passed would you consider an FSD class action lawsuit?
- Thread starter Nuclear Fusion
- Start date
and for a record, I do own a small number of Tesla stocks which I plan to hold until I retire. I do not have any short position but that shouldn't stop me from doing the right thing... money will come and go in life, but the ethical value is what's going to define you.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You know none of these mean much.
Because in any team - there will be people who always say stuff can't be done. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. Personally if I want to achieve something - and there are people in the team saying it can't be done - I'd fire them too. They can only be net negative for the team.
I'm sure hundreds or even thousands thought a lot of things Elon dreamed about won't happen. If he had just listened to them - he would have been yet another failed entrepreneur - not the richest person.
Irrespective of what I or you think - you will find it very difficult to prove he lied in a court. Thats why you should try to sue and see for yourself.
Reminds me of all those "libertarians" who claim any law they don't like is "unconstitutional" but never, ever try to take the case to the court.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Only if you actually thought, you can't deliver.
You are welcome to prove that Elon actually thought they can't deliver.
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If I don't have the service they charged me during the useful life of the product, they simply couldn't deliver! yes... In 100 years he can make my Tesla fly but who cares!!
You can't take money from customers and don't deliver products.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Right. But at the time they took the money - they didn't think they won't be able to deliver.
My quibble is not with "they haven't delivered" - but with the assertion that "they lied".
ps : Talking about ethics, why do you have as your avatar an actor who supports genocide ?
Currently, the top-rated question for the upcoming earnings call is this:
(TSLA shareholders received an email from SAY, which is the site that manages retail investor questions)
app.saytechnologies.com
(TSLA shareholders received an email from SAY, which is the site that manages retail investor questions)
Tesla Q3 2021 Earnings Q&A with CFO Zach Kirkhorn, SVP, Powertrain and Energy Engineering Drew Baglino, and more
Say Shareholder Q&A for the Q3 2021 Earnings held on Oct 20, 2021 GMT. Shareholders ask questions that are answered by company leadership like CFO Zach Kirkhorn and SVP, Powertrain and Energy Engineering Drew Baglino, among others!
app.saytechnologies.com
Exactly... I will have the car for 5 years in December and I am ready to sell the car and move on. For the life I had the car I did not get what I paid for. You cant keep saying that they will deliver sometime in the future so its ok that they did not deliver what was promised.If I don't have the service they charged me during the useful life of the product, they simply couldn't deliver! yes... In 100 years he can make my Tesla fly but who cares!!
You can't take money from customers and don't deliver products.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Currently, the top-rated question for the upcoming earnings call is this:
(TSLA shareholders received an email from SAY, which is the site that manages retail investor questions)
Tesla Q3 2021 Earnings Q&A with CFO Zach Kirkhorn, SVP, Powertrain and Energy Engineering Drew Baglino, and more
Say Shareholder Q&A for the Q3 2021 Earnings held on Oct 20, 2021 GMT. Shareholders ask questions that are answered by company leadership like CFO Zach Kirkhorn and SVP, Powertrain and Energy Engineering Drew Baglino, among others!
I feel like this was already asked and answered, more than once, on previous calls.
(the answer was no)
They lied in my opinion because they published a video showing what the car could do. In reality that was essentially a fake video made from multiple takes but nowhere was that information given.. That is where the problem is for me. They presented a video showing the car driving with ZERO interaction from the driver and that is what they called their FSD option. That is when I bought the car with the option they showed me the demonstration of.. 5 Years later and they have still not released anything close to what was demonstrated.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They still have the demo on their site. There is no hint that it should not be something that one should take at face value. No Benny Hill music there.
It even starts by saying:
The same video was also prominently embedded on FSD marketing page at the time when I purchased in 2017
With the video in that context, it looks pretty convincingly that Tesla is selling L5. I am probably not the only one who clicked that "Order Model S" button above.
It even starts by saying:
The same video was also prominently embedded on FSD marketing page at the time when I purchased in 2017
[ ... ]
With the video in that context, it looks pretty convincingly that Tesla is selling L5. I am probably not the only one who clicked that "Order Model S" button above.
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That's my Tesla Vision. 
rxlawdude
Active Member
Think for a minute, why others who are already approaching Level 3/4 are using more sensors than just a Camera? Because all the smart engineers around the world only work for Tesla or they believe Tesla's approach may not achieve true autonomy!
I think it is later based on progress made by Tesla in the last 4 years. In the last 4 years, they added faster computers despite claiming all the hardware is included and had to rewrite the entire autopilot system from the ground up (foundational rewrite!). Now ditched Radar saying it is redundant and think Vision is so powerful (which certainly can't make unprotected left turns in some situations due to the position of the cameras) that will able to achieve Full Self Driving that doesn't require human intervention.
Back in 2018, I thought the problem is almost solved and Tesla should have the feature enabled in a couple of years.... based on the number of challenges this program has faced in the last few years, I don't see more data/faster NN will help solve the problem. I hope I'm wrong and my fear is completely unjustified but I don't think FSD Beta versions can get us to Robotaxi level autonomy in the next 5 years. At that point, I'm already due for a new car!
Isn't this the reason this thread was started to share information and options on our feelings of a class action suit. Why is there a problem with me posting my opinion here? I have already reached out to a lawyer to discuss this and they are researching the issue.
I think the fact is that some people wants to defend Tesla no matter what... Tesla is religion & Elon is the god!I do not think that is the reason - at least not the only reason. I suspect (without any evidence) that the reasons for a large share of that defensiveness to be due to owning a position in TSLA. Understanding that a visible FSD non-delivery story or class-action has potential to impact stock price sufficiently to have a significant negative impact their own portfolio value.
rxlawdude
Active Member
I think that discussion has been hashed and rehashed multiple time. Take action!
He already mentioned that he reached out to a lawyer to explore his options. Interesting to see the outcome.
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