Regret purchasing FSD after the Ver 12 "upgrade" being crammed down my throat

[KLam]

I may be wrong. I don't think AP was able to switch easily to FSD beta (version 11) without using the profile switch.

Also have you considered that the little computer in our cars may not be able to load and run both AP and FSD supervised at the same time without compromising integrity of the program functions and data structure?

 

[JB47394]

I now consider myself a recovering cult member and I see things for what they are.

The greatest believers make the greatest cynics. Make sure you don't overcorrect.

I can't believe there are people actually claiming creating another driver profile is a remotely reasonable solution to this problem

It's a workaround. That's "seeing things for what they are".

The system is not well structured for convenience. It's clunky and annoying. It can even be dangerous. The important thing is to stop listening to what Elon says, or looking at the names of the products. What does it do? That's the only important thing. If you can get it to do something useful for you, then use it that way. If not, don't use it. Did you pay for extra functionality and it's not there? Like the rest of us, you just have to endure. Tesla is actively working on the software, and is pouring billions of dollars into its development. This hasn't been done before, and we're all part of a grand experiment.

On the other hand, if Tesla announced that FSD was done and stable, and it looked like it does today, well, let the riots commence.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I may be wrong. I don't think AP was able to switch easily to FSD beta (version 11) without using the profile switch.

Also have you considered that the little computer in our cars may not be able to load and run both AP and FSD supervised at the same time without compromising integrity of the program functions and data structure?

Yes, it has always been this way. The difference is the "single tap" function was recently introduced (the one where you click once for AP or FSD instead of once for TACC and twice for AP & FSD) and Tesla made it mandatory when the car is in FSD mode.

 

[Scelto]

I really couldn't have written the original post any better myself. I feel exactly the same way.

With the FSD changes and the removal of stalks (yes, I have test-driven it... twice!), I will not be visiting Tesla when I replace my model 3LR next year and I'm not all surprised to see Tesla sales suffering even more than other EV makers right now...

 

[dachshund]

Yikes it is honestly staggering to me how blinded people get with their love and devotion to a commercial company that it becomes like a part of their identity, religion, or tribe. I used to be somewhat a part of this phenomenon and was so proud of the day I got myself a TDG (Tesla "Driver's" Group) hat that was only available to owners. I used to wear that thing everywhere and would get into arguments with people if they said anything negative about Tesla. Back then in my eyes Tesla could do no wrong.

I'm now starting to wonder if all those people I argued with were actually right and it is I who was wrong.

I now consider myself a recovering cult member and I see things for what they are. They decided they want to cram FSD 12 down the throats of everyone and took away TACC, an essential driving aid for me, by turning a single button press to activate TACC into a needlessly arduous and annoying process.

I can't believe there are people actually claiming creating another driver profile is a remotely reasonable solution to this problem caused by Tesla trying to cram FSD 12 down the throat of people who bought it.

Let's see, since I bought my car and util the cram FSD down your throat update, I could always activate TACC within milliseconds with just the press of the cruise control stalk. I use TACC all the time in day-to-day driving when I want complete control over the steering and which lane I'm on. I also had quick access to enable FSD. Both had a time and purpose, and each could be turned on without needless hindrance.

So now what used to be a millisecond activation of TACC becomes:

• Moving my hand away from the steering wheel while driving in traffic.
• Looking at the center screen, taking my eye and attention away from driving..
• Press to select profiles.
• Press again to select the TACC profile.
• Appreciate how lovely it is to have my music and seat position potentially affected by the profile change.
• And now I can finally activate TACC.
• For added excitement I can go through these steps again if I want to use the FSD I paid for and waited 6 years for. Tesla ownership is just so awesome now.

And for some people, all these steps are perfectly reasonable to jump through needless hoops like a trained seal whenever you want to use TACC and not FSD or switch from one to the other. I respectfully disagree with them.

How about putting things back to the way it was with Version 11. You want to use TACC, you use TACC. You want to use FSD, you use FSD without needing to jump through hoops like a trained seal. How lovely to hear going though all these unnecessary steps to activate TACC is not a big deal when someone else has to do that.

Customers who paid for FSD should be able to use FSD because that's what they want to use over TACC without having FSD crammed down their throats by making TACC unavailable if the current driving session has FSD enabled.

I'm a bit slow, but now I understand the issue. I used the TACC regularly. With the scroll wheel I could control speed. Then one day the steering wheel was stiff, the big blue line was there. Hmm. When I got home I read up on it and realized they combined lane centering. Next drive I tried it and liked the lane centering. It felt relaxing. And now I know that if I look around, which is the first thing I did - sightseeing! - if I look around I'll get the nag. This is a nuisance they'll fix at some point. Everyone's right, we shouldn't have to look at the screen. I'd prefer a beep.

The lack of simple cruise control is the biggest complaint from drivers. The engineers and the big cheese should know this. I don't know how to influence these people, but if anyone does... It doesn't make sense to me why Tesla refuses to do this. I know, robotaxi blah blah, but, come on. It's very strange. I'm fine with the lane centering, but I didn't like it for a long time.

To DCEV, I recommend trying the single pull TACC/lane centering without a destination and keep your eyes on the road. No need to change profiles. I also agree that making multiple profiles is well, nuts. We're not in Beta anymore. Just my opinion.

 

[Darscot]

I would happily go back to radar enhanced autopilot maybe 6 months to a year after the launch of the M3. It was just such an absolute dream on the highway in commuter traffic. I did several roadtrips and you could cruise for hours and never have an issue, never get nagged. It was so nice to have driver assistance to be able to grab a bite on the road and the car was so helpful, it actually assisted you. Ha ha try that now it's dreadful, the nags are just endless, you can't change the music, or drop something and try and pick it up without the car bitching and threatending to take away functionality. I used to get home from an hour commute relaxed having just enjoyed an audiobook. With FSD no thanks, it's way more draining, I much prefer to just drive the car. Now I get home miserable after spending an hour in traffic. It's now just another EV with none of the magic that made it so special.

 

[!igs]

Please put back the C++ code. This is by far the worst FSD has ever performed for me. It is totally unusable every time I try it.

 

[KLam]

I really don't want to argue. But, I just don't understand how it's more troublesome by occasionally touch the steering wheel in FSD compared to constantly using the steering wheel to keep the car in lane in TACC.

I started early on using TACC, Lane keeping, NOA, FSD beta in that progression and I found the situation is getting better.

Now I found that I only use FSDb and never even thinking of using TACC at all. On situations that I found FSDb is no good, I just disengage and drive manually.

I have to qualify my decisions on my own experience.

1) TACC requires my full attentions on Lane keeping
2) Old AP Lane keeping has problem with full speed at curves and don't slow down to take curves. Some part of Route 152 have problem of keeping in lane on curves on the narrow mountain pass section.
3) NOA a little better, but can't handle local 2 lane curvy section.
4) My drive from LA to SF usually took 6 hrs. It's the last leg of going through the 2 lane curvy section of Route 152, I need most help to stay fresh and alert.

My drives from LA to SF have been improving and now I can arrive fresh in SF.

 

[KLam]

Yes, it has always been this way. The difference is the "single tap" function was recently introduced (the one where you click once for AP or FSD instead of once for TACC and twice for AP & FSD) and Tesla made it mandatory when the car is in FSD mode.

OK, thanks. I seldom use TACC and the single push of a button for FSD on my yoke feels much better. The double pushes sometimes resulted in disengagement instead if not timed right.

 

[SadPanda]

I only have basic autopilot and the single pull adaptive cruise control and double pull adding lane tracing is quite useful. Tesla's lane tracing forces you to only go up to +5 over speed limit on most roads that aren't interstates (the logic of which is also wildly inconsistent. I have regular streets where you can go to 85 but some state highways you're limited to +5)

Being able to easily switch between adaptive cruise and lane tracing is nice so the car doesn't hold up traffic. It's also safer since if you have to override steering you can still let the computer keep distance.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

I really don't want to argue. But, I just don't understand how it's more troublesome by occasionally touch the steering wheel in FSD compared to constantly using the steering wheel to keep the car in lane in TACC.

I often need to be able to steer but let the car maintains the speed. It isn't as relaxing as having the car 'driving' for me, but FSDS is a driver assist program and it can't handle all road conditions here.

Needing to steer while the car maintains speed is exactly what TACC is for. Around here it is used for many months of the year when the roads are full of potholes to avoid. And it is used on roads in terrible condition where the most used paved portion is in the worst condition and a smoother drive can be had if one sits a bit to the right or left side of the lane.

Autosteer and FSD do not allow for steering around potholes and tend to sit on the roughest portion of the lane when the road is in bad condition. Therefore, I want TACC for those conditions. I want FSD for most highway driving and there are times I'd want FSDS for non-divided, non-controlled access highways. And I will often travel on all three sorts of roads in one drive.

Prior to 2024.3.x, I used FSD on the divided controlled access highways and would drop down to TACC when off the highway or if I had to steer around rough paving while on the highway. If I was on roads for a long time that couldn't use FSD, and I wanted Autosteer along with TACC, I'd switch to my AP driver profile and switch back and forth between TACC and TACC+Autosteer with the stalk.

Now if I want to be able to steer the car while it maintains speed, I have to either abandon FSD or be swapping profiles back and forth, with the corresponding distraction of the screen (because I not only have to take my eyes off the road to swap profiles, but I have to restart my music or reselect a radio station.)

I can see how, if you live in an area with few potholes and road surfaces not destroyed by salt and frost damage, this would not be an issue, but where I live, the roads are often in such bad shape that any use of the screen is a crapshoot for me since my hand cannot stay steady enough with the bumping around of the car, to accurately hit anything spot on the screen without deliberately focusing hard both on the screen and controlling where my finger presses. And yet those bumpy roads are the reason I not be focusing on the screen when I should be focusing on steering around the upcoming pot holes.

It feels like this is another frustration sprung from the car being designed for Texas and CA. Removal of easy access to the defrost button was the first example of this. Thankfully, they didn't remove the defrost capability, they just buried it in the menus and left those of us who need defrosting regularly to suffer for several months until they came up with a workaround compromise.

 

[KLam]

I agree with your view with your driving preferences. For me, I would drive the pothole roads under manual control as I feel uncomfortable to steering around potholes without controlling the deceleration and acceleration.

There are a lot of potholes along I-5 especially on certain sections of the right lane where most trucks travel. You can't really avoid them at 70mph. So I just move to the pass lane and camp there until I passed the bad section.

Similar to defrost function. There is no easy way of turning on Headlight when traveling on mountain highway also.

 

[pipestem]

OK, thanks. I seldom use TACC and the single push of a button for FSD on my yoke feels much better. The double pushes sometimes resulted in disengagement instead if not timed right.

Well, I do hate this. I want 1-tap for TACC and 2-tap for FSD. Traffic conditions both in town on the highway are just too variable and FSD does not do variable. I don't even know what the conditions are going to be until I get there.

 

[de Vere]

I'm not sure why Tesla removed the single pull/double pull option when FSD is selected.


IMHO I agree with the previous posts that Tesla took away the single/double push option in FSD because of the high risk of confusion. In previous versions there were a number of times when I thought I was an FSD but I was only in AS as the car started drifting. I realized I had only single pushed and as that option is now removed there’s no question that the car is in FSD when selected as it only takes the single push.

IMHO the press reports of crashes in FSD were because of this confusion. The driver thought they were in FSD. They were not. The car was only in AS. Now there is less confusion.

 

[DCEV]

I would happily go back to radar enhanced autopilot maybe 6 months to a year after the launch of the M3. It was just such an absolute dream on the highway in commuter traffic. I did several roadtrips and you could cruise for hours and never have an issue, never get nagged. It was so nice to have driver assistance to be able to grab a bite on the road and the car was so helpful, it actually assisted you. Ha ha try that now it's dreadful, the nags are just endless, you can't change the music, or drop something and try and pick it up without the car bitching and threatending to take away functionality. I used to get home from an hour commute relaxed having just enjoyed an audiobook. With FSD no thanks, it's way more draining, I much prefer to just drive the car. Now I get home miserable after spending an hour in traffic. It's now just another EV with none of the magic that made it so special.

Except now they've taken away the assistance we've always had with TACC maintaining the set speed like any decent car from 1990s.

It's astounding how for all the talk about Tesla driving aids being so advanced, if you've paid a bunch of money for FSD, you no longer have easy access to cruise control because they decided they should instead cram FSD down our throats in their arrogance.

How dare customers want to steer the car and ask for some help from the car just to maintain a set speed, I suppose.

I wish there was some way to go back to version 11 when I had easy access to both FSD and TACC. I can't believe they expect people to pay for FSD after taking away easy access to TACC if you dare want to use the FSD you paid for.

Tesla just sent me a survey to fill out asking what I thought of their products and why I may not want to buy another Tesla.

I don't know, maybe stop treating your customers like they are chimps and stop taking away easy access to essential driving aids like TACC for cruise control.

 

[Usher]

Except now they've taken away the assistance we've always had with TACC maintaining the set speed like any decent car from 1990s.

I wonder if we'll start to see aftermarket cruise control kits for sale to fill in for this. I'm already working on something for my own car, but there's absolutely no way I would want to take on the liability of selling it to someone else. I was just going to have it automatically override all uncommanded braking events, but it wouldn't be much more work to just make it a full cruise control system. All I really want is a mode where I tell the car to go a certain speed and then it goes that speed.

 

[pipestem]

Yesterday I gave up on FSD for now and switched down to door #2 - lane keeping. I needed a break and it was quite a relaxing drive - I could choose either regular TACC or Lane keeping and they both worked well. Not like supervising a 5 year old.

And I am actually that apparantly rare person that thought the lastest 12.3.4 was an FSD improvement. One day.

 

[EVNow]

Now after paying all that money for FSD, I feel like FSD is being crammed down my throat.

When someone claims something is being "crammed down my throat" - it is always an exaggeration / propaganda. Esp. when there is no change from V11 in this respect.

 

[DCEV]

\\

Yesterday I gave up on FSD for now and switched down to door #2 - lane keeping. I needed a break and it was quite a relaxing drive - I could choose either regular TACC or Lane keeping and they both worked well. Not like supervising a 5 year old.

And I am actually that apparantly rare person that thought the lastest 12.3.4 was an FSD improvement. One day.

I'm basically in the same situation.

What an utter disgrace Tesla has become with cramming FSD down the throats of customers who paid a bunch of money and waited years only to end up in a situation where they take away easy access to TACC for cruise control if you dare want to try out the FSD that you paid for.

Their whole arrogant attitude seems to be that if you want any form of driver assistance you need to let FSD control your car completely by taking away easy access to TACC for cruise control. FSD knows better than you which lane you should be on. FSD knows better than you what speed the car should be driven. Seems like they only need you when they want your money.

And they are trying to sell this mess to paying customers. Hope they disclose before someone buys FSD that they will no longer have easy access to TACC for cruise control and will instead have to click away on the touchscreen like a trained chimp to change driver profiles if they god forbid want to use TACC for cruise control for portions of a drive.

I hope they are not too puzzled with their declining sales after taking away easy access to TACC for cruise control and treating customers like chimpanzees taking part in a science experiment dictated by Tesla.

 

[DCEV]

I wonder if we'll start to see aftermarket cruise control kits for sale to fill in for this. I'm already working on something for my own car, but there's absolutely no way I would want to take on the liability of selling it to someone else. I was just going to have it automatically override all uncommanded braking events, but it wouldn't be much more work to just make it a full cruise control system. All I really want is a mode where I tell the car to go a certain speed and then it goes that speed.

haha I'd love to buy an after-market kit to reenable TACC/cruise control in my car after the FSD 12 update disabled easy access to TACC. I wish I could go back to Version 11 and TACC.

Crazy they are now trying to sell FSD this way. I wouldn't pay a cent for FSD if it means I no longer have easy access to TACC/cruise control for when I drive the car.