Regret purchasing FSD after the Ver 12 "upgrade" being crammed down my throat

[DCEV]

After looking forward to getting the V12 upgrade, now that I have received it, especially if this is where things are going, I absolutely regret purchasing FSD and will never buy this feature again if we buy another Tesla.

With Ver 11 Beta, I had a truly useful feature in my car. I would let FSD Beta drive in cases where I was comfortable with it driving and in other cases, I could use TACC and lane keeping and it was so useful that I could use cruise control to set an exact speed, especially in areas with law enforcement or speed cameras. "Oh, a speed camera is coming up. The speed limit is 45. Let me set it to 51. Great. I'm done and I can just focus on steering."

Now after paying all that money for FSD, I feel like FSD is being crammed down my throat. When I bought FSD, I did not agree to not having access to TACC. After they took away basic TACC/Cruise Control and lane keeping, I wish I never upgraded to FSD 12. Losing that feature is absolutely not worth anything I may have gained.

Yeah, I've seen comments about creating separate profiles, but what kind of solution is that. Every time I need to use TACC and lane keeping, I need to change my driving profile, which may interrupt my music and other settings such as the saved seat position, and then I need to change my driver profile to use a feature I paid so much money for? How arrogant does a car company become to make this a "solution" to a problem they have created by taking away a basic feature I never wanted them to take away.

I don't buy the nonsense argument that this was done for safety. If this is a safety related change, they would have issued an OTA update for Ver 11 which allows the use of TACC with lane keeping and FSD separately.

I absolutely disagree with the speed set by FSD in urban driving situations around the DC area at certain times. Many times, it is either driving too fast or too slow. Earlier I could fall back on TACC and lane keeping but it is the height of draconian arrogance to remove TACC that has always been available in our cars. At least offer the OPTION of having access to TACC and lane keeping the way it used to work.

Now when I try to enable cruise control just to have the car maintain a set speed, I get the message that it's "not available." Oh really? You mean to tell me you can put the car I bought (that came with cruise control) on cruise control, but you are telling me that you are not going to do that because you want to cram something else down my throat where Tesla decides which lane I should be and which speed the car should drive? How absolutely lovely! So glad I bought a car that knows better than me which lane and speed I should drive the car.

The realization I've come to is I do not want FSD if I'm I don't have control over the speed and lane changes. When Tesla has their robot taxi fleet working and if and when they are responsible for the actions of the car, they can drive the car how they please. While I'm in charge, in control, and responsible, I set the speed in my car based on prevailing conditions.

They've become such an obnoxiously arrogant company. They took away the rain sensor and have been trying to detect rain for the last 5 years. ultrasonic sensors are gone, and they'll be working on their synthetic vision to duplicate that functionality for the next 5 years, still there is no 360-view like any other normal modern car. And now they've removed having easy access to TACC with steering because they know better than me which lane and speed the car should drive.

Is there any way I can get rid of this FSD being crammed down my throat "upgrade" and go back to having access to FSD Beta or TACC with me deciding which works better for me?

They should rename "FSD Supervised" to "FSD crammed down your throat and you will like it and ask for more because we know what's best for you and since you love Tesla so much, we can do no wrong."

It's like this is not even my car anymore. Way to go to alienate their best customers who paid for FSD and patiently waited years to have this crammed down our throats.

This is likely the last Tesla we buy. Funny thing is that I used to tell everyone I know to buy a Tesla. Now I tell everyone I know to not buy a Tesla and look at all the other options.

I used to love this company so much. It's honestly sad to see what they've become.

 

[RTPEV]

I'm not quite where you are in regards to my opinion of Tesla (although I'm not too far off), but I can't disagree with anything you've said.

I think where my head is at is that they they really believe that FSD is the bees knees and that it's truly going to be autonomous "by the end of the year".

Without a doubt I feel that the product has become worse recently. I don't measure the quality of FSD in terms of how many disengagements there are on trips that I drive every day (which I will admit, there are fewer). Rather, I measure it in terms of its usefulness to me in terms of a driver assistance tool in my everyday driving, and I agree that is has become less useful. One thing you didn't mention (although maybe you have better weather in DC!) is how easily the cameras become obscured and how annoying it gets in misty weather when you get a beep and error message every few seconds saying that FSD is degraded because of that. On a trip where you are in the car for hours, hearing this beep every minute or two is downright annoying. And why is it that this never seemed to happen before? Now it happens all the time.

Just goes to show you how far away we are from actual Full Self Driving.

 

[DCEV]

I'm note quite where you are in regards to my opinion of Tesla (although I'm not too far off), but I can't disagree with anything you've said.

I think where my head is at is that they they really believe that FSD is the bees knees and that it's truly going to be autonomous "by the end of the year".

Without a doubt I feel that the product has become worse recently. I don't measure the quality of FSD in terms of how many disengagements there are on trips that I drive every day (which I will admit, there are fewer). Rather, I measure it in terms of its usefulness to me in terms of a driver assistance tool in my everyday driving, and I agree that is has become less useful. One thing you didn't mention (although maybe you have better weather in DC!) is how easily the cameras become obscured and how annoying it gets in misty weather when you get a beep and error message every few seconds saying that FSD is degraded because of that. On a trip where you are in the car for hours, hearing this beep every minute or two is downright annoying. And why is it that this never seemed to happen before? Now it happens all the time.

Just goes to show you how far away we are from actual Full Self Driving.

This has been a slow journey for me, but I think a turning point was when I tried to activate cruise control to maintain a set speed because there's a speed camera coming up, and the car just flat out tells me it is not going to give me cruise control because it would rather determine the speed and lane my car should drive.

I can't believe the level of arrogance it takes to come up with this situation for customers who've paid for their cars and simply want the car to drive a set speed, stay in lane, and not do anything else. Any modern vehicle can do this basic task.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yeah, I've seen comments about creating separate profiles, but what kind of solution is that. Every time I need to use TACC and lane keeping, I need to change my driving profile, which may interrupt my music and other settings such as the saved seat position, and then I need to change my driver profile to use a feature I paid so much money for?

Even with FSD beta V11 you didn't have access to "lane keeping" without creating separate profiles. (Or stopping and changing from FSD Beta to Autopilot mode.) So that is nothing new for your use case...

I do agree with Tesla that TACC and FSD needs to be kept separate, as too many drivers ended up confused and were not operating in the mode they thought they were. But maybe they could accomplish that by having a different activation action for TACC. (I don't know what that might be, holding down the drive stalk for a second? There are just limited buttons, especially on the newer stalk-less vehicles to use.)

 

[DCEV]

Even with FSD beta V11 you didn't have access to "lane keeping" without creating separate profiles. (Or stopping and changing from FSDb Beta to Autopilot mode.) So that is nothing new for your use case...

I do agree with Tesla that TACC and FSD needs to be kept separate, as too many drivers ended up confused and where not operating in the mode they thought they were. But maybe they could accomplish that by having a different activation action for TACC. (I don't know what that might be, holding down the drive stalk for a second? There are just limited buttons, especially on the newer stalk-less vehicles to use.)

I used to have access to basic cruise control to maintain a set speed. This is essential in areas with lots of speed cameras, as we do in DC. This is an essential feature I use ALL the time, until the "FSD Crammed Down Your Throat" update came along.

The two have been separate. I used to activate FSD and TACC separately all the time and it was clear what was what. Maybe it's because I have an actual stalk where I pull to activate FSD and use the stalk up and down for TACC.

haha as for drivers getting "confused," the only time I've been truly confused with using FSD is when I went "WTF do you mean I can't set the cruise control speed any more like any good car the 1990s?!"

 

[mikez10288]

I used to have access to basic cruise control to maintain a set speed. This is essential in areas with lots of speed cameras, as we do in DC. This is an essential feature I use ALL the time, until the "FSD Crammed Down Your Throat" update came along.

The two have been separate. I used to activate FSD and TACC separately all the time and it was clear what was what. Maybe it's because I have an actual stalk where I pull to activate FSD and use the stalk up and down for TACC.

haha as for drivers getting "confused," the only time I've been truly confused with using FSD is when I went "WTF do you mean I can't set the cruise control speed any more like any good car the 1990s?!"

Regarding your points about TACC/FSD being separate and setting TACC speed:

You can still do that. I suspect you have the option to allow the car to determine the appropriate speed enabled (I forget what it's officially called.) There is a toggle switch in the autopilot settings menu. If you turn that off, you will have the ability to use TACC independent of FSD and the ability to set specific max speeds in FSD.

 

[azred]

Threads like this one are discouraging. As one who has two cars with purchased FSD including a very early one (12/2016), I would never argue that owners shouldn’t be frustrated with the software's seven and a half years progress. However, for the first time in years I am encouraged by the potential for the end-to-end approach of v12. Will I be posting YouTube videos about my lengthy trips on v12 with no interventions? Not a chance. In fact I intervene often.

I appreciate the posts in this forum that help me to anticipate problems including the current potential for curbing wheels. However, I would caution anyone who watch the YouTube stars and assume their reports are close to accurate. Remember their income potential is heavily dependent on being early recipients of the latest software and that means limiting criticism.

 

[DCEV]

Regarding your points about TACC/FSD being separate and setting TACC speed:

You can still do that. I suspect you have the option to allow the car to determine the appropriate speed enabled (I forget what it's officially called.) There is a toggle switch in the autopilot settings menu. If you turn that off, you will have the ability to use TACC independent of FSD and the ability to set specific max speeds in FSD.

I am aware that for FSD I can set the speed I wish with an offset, which I have done. The problem is I no longer have access to TACC just by itself as a form of cruise control. This is essential for me for driving in the DC area with lots of speed cameras everywhere and with me driving more actively to avoid potholes, road debris, slower lanes, cyclists on certain lanes, and other situations. Especially if I'm in a hurry, I just want to drive the car I bought and have some help from TACC as a form of cruise control so I can stay within a 4-5mph threshold above the speed limit but nothing more than that.

This is what they've taken away in their arrogance. Now when I try to use TACC as a form of cruise control with me steering the car, it tells me this feature is not "unavailable." It's like they are telling me unless I let FSD determine which lane we think your car should be driven, we are not letting you use TACC for cruise control any more if you have the audacity to want to steer your car and decide which lane to be on.

And to think I paid a bunch of money for FSD to be in this situation with TACC/cruise control being taken away from me.

How absolutely lovely of them to take TACC/cruise control away from me and make these decisions for me on how I can use the car I bought by cramming FSD down my throat.

 

[MP3Mike]

And to think I paid a bunch of money for FSD to be in this situation with TACC/cruise control being taken away from me.

But they didn't take it away from you. You just have to set your options to use it. (Using different profiles if you need/want to switch between FSD and TACC mid-drive.)

How absolutely lovely of them to take TACC/cruise control away from me and make these decisions for me on how I can use the car I bought by cramming FSD down my throat.

It's not crammed down your throat, if you don't want to use FSD, set your option to use TACC or Autopilot instead.

 

[dachshund]

I don't get the "not available" complaint. Is v12 less able to circumvent certain areas suddenly, or are people trying FSD for the first time and discovering it's not available everywhere?

I used to object to FSD since I found it unsafe in earlier versions. I definitely think Elon is arrogant and a snake oil salesman, but the engineers doing the AI are quite impressive. The software is designed for the robotaxi, and therefore it will get better and safer. This may not make it popular since it won't drive exactly the way humans do.

 

[DCEV]

But they didn't take it away from you. You just have to set your options to use it. (Using different profiles if you need/want to switch between FSD and TACC mid-drive.)


It's not crammed down your throat, if you don't want to use FSD, set your option to use TACC or Autopilot instead.

haha I'm so happy Tesla has customers like you who will make excuses and accept anything they do. I used to be like that too wearing my Tesla hat everywhere I went and telling everyone how great Tesla is and how they know what is best but no more.

Wow just listen to yourself. It used to be that you can activate TACC with one press and use TACC like any normal car. Now I'm supposed to create a new driver profile. Switch to that, and then activate TACC from a separate driving profile while driving in traffic? And if I make a seat change, I need to update that on the second driver profile and put up with my music changing since I had to change the driver profile because I have the audacity to use cruise control that came with the car. Wow, just wow, the contortions some people go through and accept for their love and devotion to Tesla.

We can agree to disagree that they are trying to cram FSD down my throat by taking away TACC/cruise control from me.

This will likely be our last Tesla. If they keep this arrogance up, hope they don't wonder why fewer people are buying their cars.

 

[MP3Mike]

Switch to that, and then activate TACC from a separate driving profile while driving in traffic?

How often do you want to switch between TACC and FSD?

 

[DCEV]

I don't get the "not available" complaint. Is v12 less able to circumvent certain areas suddenly, or are people trying FSD for the first time and discovering it's not available everywhere?

I used to object to FSD since I found it unsafe in earlier versions. I definitely think Elon is arrogant and a snake oil salesman, but the engineers doing the AI are quite impressive. The software is designed for the robotaxi, and therefore it will get better and safer. This may not make it popular since it won't drive exactly the way humans do.

That's a good question. I'm quite experienced in using FSD and have been one of the first beta testers of the software so I'm quite familiar with using it.

It's not that V12 is more or less able to circumvent certain situations but rather that I prefer driving my car in certain areas without FSD dictating which lane I should be on. I basically use TACC as cruise control all the time when I drive manually. The ability to easily access this essential feature is what they have purposefully disabled when I "upgraded" to FSD 12.

Had I've known upgrading to FSD 12 will result in me having to press additional buttons on the touch screen while driving and jump through hoops like a trained seal to activate a different profile so I can use TACC for cruise control I would never have "upgraded" to FSD12.

I just hope they give back easy access to TACC as a form of cruise control as has been available since I first bought the car. Sometimes I just want the car to help me with the speed with me handling the steering.

 

[DCEV]

How often do you want to switch between TACC and FSD?

Good question. When I'm driving long distances on an Interstate, probably very rarely.

When I'm driving around in the DC area, probably quite often.

FSD or TACC used to be such a great driving aid. I can activate TACC as cruise control with one button press. Or I could activate FSD with one button press. Both features had a time and a place for how I use my car. Being able to just use TACC easily is just so essential for me.

 

[Bill Price]

I am aware that for FSD I can set the speed I wish with an offset, which I have done. The problem is I no longer have access to TACC just by itself as a form of cruise control. This is essential for me for driving in the DC area with lots of speed cameras everywhere and with me driving more actively to avoid potholes, road debris, slower lanes, cyclists on certain lanes, and other situations. Especially if I'm in a hurry, I just want to drive the car I bought and have some help from TACC as a form of cruise control so I can stay within a 4-5mph threshold above the speed limit but nothing more than that.

This is what they've taken away in their arrogance. Now when I try to use TACC as a form of cruise control with me steering the car, it tells me this feature is not "unavailable." It's like they are telling me unless I let FSD determine which lane we think your car should be driven, we are not letting you use TACC for cruise control any more if you have the audacity to want to steer your car and decide which lane to be on.

And to think I paid a bunch of money for FSD to be in this situation with TACC/cruise control being taken away from me.

How absolutely lovely of them to take TACC/cruise control away from me and make these decisions for me on how I can use the car I bought by cramming FSD down my throat.

I hear what you are saying.........but I don't understand why you are saying it? First of all, in the car settings under Autopilot, you have three options...

1. Traffic Aware Cruise Control
2. Autosteer (Beta)
3. Full Self Driving (Supervised)

I choose to use Full Self Driving (Supervised) as the driver's display shows so much more detail than TACC does. I never use FSD in the city because I like to drive. I may use it on the interstate at times that I'm making more than a short trip. If you ONLY want to use TACC on the interstate, or anywhere else just click on TACC. If you want FSD for the enhanced display or other reasons click on that. AT ANY TIME, should you decide you want to go back to TACC, all you have to do is bring up the car settings again (while driving) and it will allow you to choose TACC. Use TACC for as long as you want. You cannot go back to FSD unless you stop the car completely, but you can switch from FSD to TACC without bringing the car to a halt. I don't see this as a significant setback. Perhaps Tesla will make it easier to switch back and forth in a firmware revision in the future. This procedure works (in my car) with version 12.4, which I am currently running, but it also worked with the earlier firmware 12.3

Embrace the change as nothing stays the same.

 

[DCEV]

I used to object to FSD since I found it unsafe in earlier versions. I definitely think Elon is arrogant and a snake oil salesman, but the engineers doing the AI are quite impressive. The software is designed for the robotaxi, and therefore it will get better and safer. This may not make it popular since it won't drive exactly the way humans do.

I think you just described the use case for why having easy access to TACC by itself is still so essential. There are situations where you may want to drive your car and just have help with speed control.

I hear what you are saying.........but I don't understand why you are saying it? First of all, in the car settings under Autopilot, you have three options...

1. Traffic Aware Cruise Control
2. Autosteer (Beta)
3. Full Self Driving (Supervised)

I choose to use Full Self Driving (Supervised) as the driver's display shows so much more detail than TACC does. I never use FSD in the city because I like to drive. I may use it on the interstate at times that I'm making more than a short trip. If you ONLY want to use TACC on the interstate, or anywhere else just click on TACC. If you want FSD for the enhanced display or other reasons click on that. AT ANY TIME, should you decide you want to go back to TACC, all you have to do is bring up the car settings again (while driving) and it will allow you to choose TACC. Use TACC for as long as you want. You cannot go back to FSD unless you stop the car completely, but you can switch from FSD to TACC without bringing the car to a halt. I don't see this as a significant setback. Perhaps Tesla will make it easier to switch back and forth in a firmware revision in the future. This procedure works (in my car) with version 12.4, which I am currently running, but it also worked with the earlier firmware 12.3

Embrace the change as nothing stays the same.

Well, I'm all for embarking things I've embraced FSD and paid for it when it wasn't even a functioning product when I bought my car. I've been using FSD with all the ups and downs for years without issue. Removing easy access to TACC is a bridge too far for me because I use that feature all the time.

I hope you understand having to stop the car or go through hoops like a trained seal to change the driver profile to use TACC or FSD is not an acceptable solution for everyone, when the choice between TACC or cruise control used to be just a single button press. While I'm all for accepting change and new ways of doing things, I'm not okay with dumb arrogant change, which this is.

Incidentally, just noticed that we both have the same car configuration How's your car holding up?

 

[acm319]

I completely agree with the OPs position. This has been exactly my experience (I posted a virtually identical experience in another thread). I went from really enjoying v11 where I could pick and choose the features I like, to simply despising V12. My use case is that I travel on a 55 MPH 30 mile stretch to and from work where the traffic all moves at basically 65mph. I used v11 for the ability to set the speed at 65, and utilized stop light control traveling through the couple of small towns I pass through. Now the car constantly wants to change speed for no reason and I find that I am very sensitive to even minor speed changes...which has become maddening.

I've now gone back to driving my ICE truck to and from work, (which used to be used exclusively for towing and picking up lumber for house projects). I just find if I take my model Y, I get to work very angry and frustrated. My truck has better adaptive cruise control, basic lane keep, USS parking sensors, 360 view cameras, better auto wipers and headlights...and I just find the drive far less frustrating than having to constantly babysit cruise control. My hope is that Tesla gets enough complaints about poor speed control that they add TACC back in or fix the annoying system that can't maintain speed. My plan is to wait another year or so, and if they can't/don't fix it in this time I plan to trade the Model Y for another brand EV (in fact, I've started budgeting for this scenario as I think it's most likely with Musk at the helm).

I think Tesla is going through the transition from a niche car company composed of early adopters who derived a ton of utility from the "beta tester experience" to a mainstream auto company where the typical user just wants "things to be stable and work consistently." There is a reason that mainstream car companies focus heavily on delivering a "finished product" versus "we will fix this in a software update." The vast majority of consumers aren't tech obsessed and just want a stable product.

I think Musk was definitely the right person for the company when it was more of a startup (he drove the hype that led to success) but I think he is most definitely not the right leader now. Maybe he could lead a "skunkworks" type team within Tesla...but there is a reason high-cost low likelihood projects should to be isolated from the broader company mission. FSD is very high risk project, where both the overall success and economic value are completely unknown (e.g., if FSD comes to fruition at Tesla other manufactures will likely follow suit which could lead to a price war on FSD where FSD becomes a "standard feature" loosing much of it's economic value, or a few high profile accidents could cause legislators to ban the product effectively killing the market all together). Tesla should absolutely continue to pursue FSD...but it should be seen as a skunkworks project rather than a "all eggs in one basket approach." With the declining growth in EV transition and increasing competition...Tesla needs to regain its focus on delivering the best EV experience...which includes fixing all the problems you mentioned (e.g., USS sensors, 360 camera, better auto headlights/wipers, etc.) while trying to add innovative features that make the driving experience better FOR ALL USERS not just the social media influencers.

 

[Bill Price]

I think you just described the use case for why having easy access to TACC by itself is still so essential. There are situations where you may want to drive your car and just have help with speed control.


Well, I'm all for embarking things I've embraced FSD and paid for it when it wasn't even a functioning product when I bought my car. I've been using FSD with all the ups and downs for years without issue. Removing easy access to TACC is a bridge too far for me because I use that feature all the time.

I hope you understand having to stop the car or go through hoops like a trained seal to change the driver profile to use TACC or FSD is not an acceptable solution for everyone, when the choice between TACC or cruise control used to be just a single button press. While I'm all for accepting change and new ways of doing things, I'm not okay with dumb arrogant change, which this is.

Incidentally, just noticed that we both have the same car configuration How's your car holding up?

I noticed that too.........so I changed it to my current car just now, which is a Plaid that I ordered in late May last year and took delivery June 5. My old model P100D was working as new. It had about 25,000 miles on it when traded in. OEM tires lasted only about 10,000 at which time I changed the Michelins to Pirellis, and with over 15,000 on them, they had plenty of tread left when traded in. Most of the pre-mature wear can probably be attributed to "spirited driving" as the 2018 model was a demo and I purchased it with a little over 4,000 miles on it. Of course, I had lifetime supercharging with that car. Tesla gave me an incentive to trade it in and gave me 6 years unlimited supercharging on the Plaid if I gave up the lifetime. So now I have time-bound supercharging which expires in 2029. On a side note, it had a little battery degradation which I figured to be about 6%. But after having experienced the ludicrous acceleration several times, that was enough for me and I drove it pretty mildly, playing the game if you will, attempting to get the best mileage out of it. As you know it was rated at 315, but I could regularly get almost 400 on a trip with it by "playing the game" of regenerative braking as best I can. Attached is a picture from September of 2022 where I got my best MPGE ever. But I regularly got somewhere between 140 and 150 MPGE in the summer. NOT in the winter as both of our cars had resistive heating. Take care, m'man!

 

[MP3Mike]

My hope is that Tesla gets enough complaints about poor speed control that they add TACC back in

Add it back? It is still there. Just set your option to TACC or Autopilot if you don't like how FSD drives. The only issue I see is if you want to switch between TACC and FSD during a single drive.

 

[Bill Price]

Add it back? It is still there. Just set your option to TACC or Autopilot if you don't like how FSD drives. The only issue I see is if you want to switch between TACC and FSD during a single drive.

Correct. And as I said in an earlier post that you CAN switch from FSD to TACC while driving. To switch from TACC to FSD you must bring the car to a complete stop though.