Regret purchasing FSD after the Ver 12 "upgrade" being crammed down my throat

[DCEV]

Well, I do hate this. I want 1-tap for TACC and 2-tap for FSD. Traffic conditions both in town on the highway are just too variable and FSD does not do variable. I don't even know what the conditions are going to be until I get there.

I hope they implement a way to either enable TACC or FSD based on which button is pressed without having to act like a trained chimp changing driver profiles and putting up with all the hassles caused when your music or seat position changes based on the driver profile.

Yesterday I had to do a bunch of driving around town and FSD 12 was tolerable after I turned off the "minimize lane changes" option but it still made lane changes I didn't want, and I had no control over the steering.

It took FSD 12 to make me realize that I use and need TACC about as much as FSD and I use them both for different situations.

No longer having easy access to TACC and being able to select easily between TACC or FSD just sucks.

I'll keep all this in mind next time I need to buy a car.

 

[Dewg]

I'll keep all this in mind next time I need to buy a car.

Keep an eye on Mercedes - their EQS with L3 Drive Pilot may just be the ticket you're looking for.

 

[dcfas]

I am still learning FSD as I am first experiencing it with the free trial this month. While amazing in many ways I do find it frustrating at times, but the more I use it the better I get at managing it. It also seems to be a bit less buggy since the trial began. Fewer alerts, no phantom breaking.

One thing that does drive me crazy in the system, including the TACC, is how the car will sometimes slow down and limit the speed in even light rain. I find myself taking it out of cruise or FSD so that I’m not holding up traffic.

 

[golfpilot]

I wish Tesla would have a "soft" FSD mode that would allow the user to make small adjustments without a full disengagement. Where this is most useful are roads with potholes. TACC is the mode of choice because FSD needs constant disengagements. I would imagine that would also help with the AI learning but would likely be a huge rework because of the current "nag" requirement.

 

[pipestem]

I wish Tesla would have a "soft" FSD mode that would allow the user to make small adjustments without a full disengagement. Where this is most useful are roads with potholes. TACC is the mode of choice because FSD needs constant disengagements. I would imagine that would also help with the AI learning but would likely be a huge rework because of the current "nag" requirement.

I totally agree. This is one of my main gripes. Case in point recently had 2 cases where car flunked multi lane merges so I had to take over but that takes an extra moment of time and the car twitches which unnerves other drivers.

 

[DCEV]

I wish Tesla would have a "soft" FSD mode that would allow the user to make small adjustments without a full disengagement. Where this is most useful are roads with potholes. TACC is the mode of choice because FSD needs constant disengagements. I would imagine that would also help with the AI learning but would likely be a huge rework because of the current "nag" requirement.

Interestingly this is how "autopilot" on our Volvo XC90 works. It will happily steer and TACC for you and at any time you can steer the car away from potholes or shrubs on the side of the road. When you stop providing steering input the Volvo returns to driving itself by resuming lane keeping and TACC automatically.

At the least I wish they would replace TACC with FSD but with no lane changes. Those FSD lane changes in city traffic can be infuriating when you don't want them.

I have no idea why they decided to cram FSD down our throats as the only form of driver assistance by removing easy access to TACC when they both have a useful time and place as was the case for years before the awful FSD 12 update.

 

[DrChaos]

Interestingly this is how "autopilot" on our Volvo XC90 works. It will happily steer and TACC for you and at any time you can steer the car away from potholes or shrubs on the side of the road. When you stop providing steering input the Volvo returns to driving itself by resuming lane keeping and TACC automatically.

At the least I wish they would replace TACC with FSD but with no lane changes. Those FSD lane changes in city traffic can be infuriating when you don't want them.

Does Minimal Lane Changes This Drive + Minimal aggressiveness option not do enough?

Also clearing a navigation target will have it generally just drive straight unless manually signaled.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Interestingly this is how "autopilot" on our Volvo XC90 works. It will happily steer and TACC for you and at any time you can steer the car away from potholes or shrubs on the side of the road. When you stop providing steering input the Volvo returns to driving itself by resuming lane keeping and TACC automatically.

At the least I wish they would replace TACC with FSD but with no lane changes. Those FSD lane changes in city traffic can be infuriating when you don't want them.

I have no idea why they decided to cram FSD down our throats as the only form of driver assistance by removing easy access to TACC when they both have a useful time and place as was the case for years before the awful FSD 12 update.

The NHTSA report that was released recently showed there were a significant proportion of crashes where there was mode confusion: namely people though they had Autosteer still active, but actually they were only on TACC. I imagine that is why they have single pull and make it harder to fall back to TACC when in FSD. Avoiding those accidents overrides any annoyance and inconvenience (it's the same story with nags and the strike system).

Of course you can also argue there may be other ways to avoid mode confusion. The way Mercedes does it for L3 is when disengaging it disables everything, but you can re-enable lower levels from there. But there is no seamless drop to lower levels.

 

[Cebu97]

Yikes it is honestly staggering to me how blinded people get with their love and devotion to a commercial company that it becomes like a part of their identity, religion, or tribe. I used to be somewhat a part of this phenomenon and was so proud of the day I got myself a TDG (Tesla "Driver's" Group) hat that was only available to owners. I used to wear that thing everywhere and would get into arguments with people if they said anything negative about Tesla. Back then in my eyes Tesla could do no wrong.

I'm now starting to wonder if all those people I argued with were actually right and it is I who was wrong.

I now consider myself a recovering cult member and I see things for what they are. They decided they want to cram FSD 12 down the throats of everyone and took away TACC, an essential driving aid for me, by turning a single button press to activate TACC into a needlessly arduous and annoying process.

I can't believe there are people actually claiming creating another driver profile is a remotely reasonable solution to this problem caused by Tesla trying to cram FSD 12 down the throat of people who bought it.

Let's see, since I bought my car and util the cram FSD down your throat update, I could always activate TACC within milliseconds with just the press of the cruise control stalk. I use TACC all the time in day-to-day driving when I want complete control over the steering and which lane I'm on. I also had quick access to enable FSD. Both had a time and purpose, and each could be turned on without needless hindrance.

So now what used to be a millisecond activation of TACC becomes:

• Moving my hand away from the steering wheel while driving in traffic.
• Looking at the center screen, taking my eye and attention away from driving..
• Press to select profiles.
• Press again to select the TACC profile.
• Appreciate how lovely it is to have my music and seat position potentially affected by the profile change.
• And now I can finally activate TACC.
• For added excitement I can go through these steps again if I want to use the FSD I paid for and waited 6 years for. Tesla ownership is just so awesome now.

And for some people, all these steps are perfectly reasonable to jump through needless hoops like a trained seal whenever you want to use TACC and not FSD or switch from one to the other. I respectfully disagree with them.

How about putting things back to the way it was with Version 11. You want to use TACC, you use TACC. You want to use FSD, you use FSD without needing to jump through hoops like a trained seal. How lovely to hear going though all these unnecessary steps to activate TACC is not a big deal when someone else has to do that.

Customers who paid for FSD should be able to use FSD because that's what they want to use over TACC without having FSD crammed down their throats by making TACC unavailable if the current driving session has FSD enabled.

Here is the latest Tesla (autopilot??) fatality here in Washington.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/apr/24/tesla-driver-charged-killing-motorcyclist-after-tu/

Not sure what level of Autopilot this driver is claiming to be control of his Tesla?
Shouldn't Tesla jump in and tell the authorities if this Tesla was under Autopilot, most likely this Model S shared this data with Tesla.

I would go further and say FSD should not be allowed on a Tesla if Tesla is allowed a disclaimer that the driver must take over FSD to avert a problem.
If you have played timed chess, you make a move and hit a time clock.
Almost no person paying timed chess could ever beat a chess computer.
In this case how would the driver act quick enough to stop a Tesla under FSD from 'lurching' forward instantly?

Why hasn't NHTSA put standards in place that regulate many levels of Driving automation.

 

[DCEV]

Does Minimal Lane Changes This Drive + Minimal aggressiveness option not do enough?

Also clearing a navigation target will have it generally just drive straight unless manually signaled.

No, I'm afraid it doesn't help.

What I want is to be able to steer and drive the car and for the vehicle to not steer for me. Basically, give me back an easy way to enable TACC that I've had since I bought my car. I've had access to cruise control since the 2000s in every car I've owned until Tesla decided to remove easy access to this essential driving aid in a software update.

There are times when I don't want any risk of my wheels being curbed, drive too close to other traffic, drive too close to shrubs on the side of the road, go over potholes, be in a lane that I know is not ideal for what's coming up next. Just let me drive my car and give me some help to just maintain the speed. How hard is this?!

I wish before this FSD 12 mess was shoved down my throat there was a disclaimer and option to stay on Version 11 and keep TACC/cruise control. FSD 12 has been a net loss for me. My car was greatly more useful to me with FSD 11 and TACC than with FSD 12 and no easy access to TACC.

I hope they are not wondering too hard why their sales are dropping, and fewer people want to buy their cars.

 

[MP3Mike]

Basically, give me back an easy way to enable TACC that I've had since I bought my car. I've had access to cruise control since the 2000s in every car I've owned until Tesla decided to remove easy access to this essential driving aid in a software update.

There is still easy access to TACC, what there isn't is a super-quick way to switch between TACC and FSD.

You can still switch your options to AP, and then have the super-quick way to go between TACC and AP.

 

[DCEV]

There is still easy access to TACC, what there isn't is a super-quick way to switch between TACC and FSD.

You can still switch your options to AP, and then have the super-quick way to go between TACC and AP.

Like I've said many times, I don't want to have to act liked a trained chimp whenever I want to use the FSD I paid for or simply want quick and easy access to cruise control. I'd like to be able to easily select which driving aid makes most sense to me, like any normal car made by a sane car company.

So now what used to be a millisecond activation of TACC becomes:

• Moving my hand away from the steering wheel while driving in traffic.
• Looking at the center screen, taking my eye and attention away from driving..
• Press to select profiles.
• Press again to select the TACC profile.
• Appreciate how lovely it is to have my music and seat position potentially affected by the profile change.
• And now I can finally activate TACC.
• For added excitement I can go through these steps again if I want to use the FSD I paid for and waited 6 years for. Tesla ownership is just so awesome now.

And for some people, all these steps are perfectly reasonable to jump through needless hoops like a trained chimp whenever you want to use TACC and not FSD or switch from one to the other. I respectfully disagree with them.

How about putting things back to the way it was with Version 11. You want to use TACC, you use TACC. You want to use FSD, you use FSD without needing to jump through hoops like a trained animal. How lovely to hear going though all these unnecessary steps to activate TACC is not a big deal when someone else has to do that while driving in traffic.

Astounding how some people make justifications and excuses for horrible decisions that make the driving and ownership experience worse not better.

Like I said earlier, I really hope they are not too perplexed with declining sales as they stew in their arrogance by taking away easy access to essential driving aids from customers.

We just had to buy a new car and while in the past, all we would have looked at are Tesla offerings, this time, we wanted something not made by Tesla.

We ended up buying a Volvo XC90 and in so many ways it is a much better car than anything made by Tesla. The ergonomics are sublime. Love the 360-view for parking, precise ultrasonic sensors, a rain sensor that works day or night, and the most mind-blowing feature of all -- Volvo let's us decide if we want to use TACC/cruise control or their version of Autopilot with TACC plus lane keeping.

Imagine that. A car company that actually offers useful driving aids and giving owners the choice to instantly select what is useful for them.

 

[MP3Mike]

Volvo let's us decide if we want to use TACC/cruise control or their version of Autopilot with TACC plus lane keeping.

Just like you can still do with your Tesla. (As Volvo doesn't have an equivalent to FSD.)

 

[DCEV]

Just like you can still do with your Tesla. (As Volvo doesn't have an equivalent to FSD.)

Yes, if I wanted to act like a trained chimp. You keep talking about changing driver profiles like that's a reasonable and quick option. It is not due to the reasons I pointed out.

And Thank God Volvo doesn't shove one type of driving aid down my throat by taking away the other driving aid like Tesla. This is why we didn't buy another Tesla.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yes, if I wanted to act like a trained chimp. You keep talking about changing driver profiles like that's a reasonable and quick option. It is not due to the reasons I pointed out.

No, not at all what I said. No trained chimp necessary. No profile swaps necessary.

Set your option to Autopilot, and two-pull activation. You can then switch between TACC and TACC/Autosteer as you used to. (And like your Volvo lets you.)

 

[Dewg]

No, not at all what I said. No trained chimp necessary. No profile swaps necessary.

Set your option to Autopilot, and two-pull activation. You can then switch between TACC and TACC/Autosteer as you used to. (And like your Volvo lets you.)

Exactly

 

[DrChaos]

No, I'm afraid it doesn't help.

What I want is to be able to steer and drive the car and for the vehicle to not steer for me.

Ah OK. TBH I found autosteer to be more reliable and predictable than the TACC. There are few cases of 'phantom swerving' on the highway. Before FSD 12.3 I would want Autosteer but manual acceleration.

With FSD 12.3, setting chill and minimal lane changes with no nav destination is sometimes valuable to me as I find the primary errors to often be lane selection.

I think unfortunately that your desires may be a minority. I often found using TACC on its own to be quite uncomfortable, with acceleration happening on its own with me trying to steer it was often me reacting to something it did unexpectedly, whereas with manual driving the simultaneous use is planned. I ended up never using TACC and liked the change to one-pull and the elimination of the mode of TACC without autosteer as I occasionally got into it unintentionally and was surprised and sometimes had to disengage suddenly.

 

[DCEV]

No, not at all what I said. No trained chimp necessary. No profile swaps necessary.

Set your option to Autopilot, and two-pull activation. You can then switch between TACC and TACC/Autosteer as you used to. (And like your Volvo lets you.)

Except I no longer have quick and easy access to the FSD I paid for if I want quick and easy access to TACC.

I do get it though. I used to be just like you making excuses for things Tesla did.

I'm no longer part of the Tesla cult Now I just want a car that is easy to live with and not have to act like I'm Tesla's trained chimpanzee. This is the reason we did not buy another Tesla and so glad we bought a Volvo XC90 over a Model X. I hear their sales are going down. They can keep alienating customers by taking away features and I'm sure that will help their sales numbers going forward. What a miserable and arrogant car company they have become.

I still out of habit try to enable TACC when driving to be told by the car "The feature is not available." How absolutely lovely. And the people lining up to defend this nonsense.

 

[KLam]

Except I no longer have quick and easy access to the FSD I paid for if I want quick and easy access to TACC.

I do get it though. I used to be just like you making excuses for things Tesla did.

I'm no longer part of the Tesla cult Now I just want a car that is easy to live with and not have to act like I'm Tesla's trained chimpanzee. This is the reason we did not buy another Tesla and so glad we bought a Volvo XC90 over a Model X. I hear their sales are going down. They can keep alienating customers by taking away features and I'm sure that will help their sales numbers going forward. What a miserable and arrogant car company they have become.

I still out of habit try to enable TACC when driving to be told by the car "The feature is not available." How absolutely lovely. And the people lining up to defend this nonsense.

I found your comments very disturbing. Don't call Tesla buyers chimpanzee! It's you who want to be a chimpanzee and refuse to take charge and supervise. So enjoy being a Volve trained chimpanzee.

 

[DCEV]

Ah OK. TBH I found autosteer to be more reliable and predictable than the TACC. There are few cases of 'phantom swerving' on the highway. Before FSD 12.3 I would want Autosteer but manual acceleration.

With FSD 12.3, setting chill and minimal lane changes with no nav destination is sometimes valuable to me as I find the primary errors to often be lane selection.

I think unfortunately that your desires may be a minority. I often found using TACC on its own to be quite uncomfortable, with acceleration happening on its own with me trying to steer it was often me reacting to something it did unexpectedly, whereas with manual driving the simultaneous use is planned. I ended up never using TACC and liked the change to one-pull and the elimination of the mode of TACC without autosteer as I occasionally got into it unintentionally and was surprised and sometimes had to disengage suddenly.

I think the real minority are a few people on this forum invested in the Tesla's mission or revolution or whatever it is called to make excuses for every bad decision they make. Based on their sales figures it seems alienating their existing and potential customers seems to be having the logical outcome.

Most people just want a car that will make their lives better and easy to use. Isn't it wonderful to have the choice of easily selecting FSD or TACC like we have for the last 6 years based on what we find more useful without cramming FSD 12 down our throats by taking away quick and easy access to TACC.