The Model S&X currently have active noise cancellation. I think the microphones are only in the front headrests. But they likely don't use CAN, they may be wired directly to the head unit. (I think it was rumored that there are sensors on the struts that feed into the system as well.)
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At first I thought they were moving all the DACs/ADCs all the way out to where the actual speakers/microphones were, but it sounds like (pun not intended) that instead they moved from the ICE unit to the nearest etherloop stop, as for example the left front body unit that was shown, which seemed to have a bunch of left speakers, I am guessing the left front speakers, then right front on the right front body unit, similarly someplace one or more rear body units that handle ADC/DACs for that area of the vehicle.
So we have not totally gotten rid of legacy wiring in favor of "Etherloop" but realistically it is the sane balance. Running the network all the way to the speakers/microphones would actually require more wiring and complexity than this model where it runs to nearest module, then is broken out more traditionally, since from what they said about using a normal ethernet connection on the body module they were showing the PCB for, it seems likely they're using 8-conductor ethernet wiring to handle gigabit.
Better to have just two or three wires for the speakers or microphones than 8 wires plus power running to them, after all (or 8 wires and the added complexity of PoE). Similarly, rather than running power plus 8 wires to door motors and such, just run the few wires actually needed (2 or 3). And since we're operating at 48V (or 24V apparently for some things), wiring is smaller than it was for 12V for these motor loads, so you still have less wiring than before, even with the "last mile" being more traditional rather than "Etherloop".
So we have not totally gotten rid of legacy wiring in favor of "Etherloop" but realistically it is the sane balance. Running the network all the way to the speakers/microphones would actually require more wiring and complexity than this model where it runs to nearest module, then is broken out more traditionally, since from what they said about using a normal ethernet connection on the body module they were showing the PCB for, it seems likely they're using 8-conductor ethernet wiring to handle gigabit.
Better to have just two or three wires for the speakers or microphones than 8 wires plus power running to them, after all (or 8 wires and the added complexity of PoE). Similarly, rather than running power plus 8 wires to door motors and such, just run the few wires actually needed (2 or 3). And since we're operating at 48V (or 24V apparently for some things), wiring is smaller than it was for 12V for these motor loads, so you still have less wiring than before, even with the "last mile" being more traditional rather than "Etherloop".
There’s a cost benefit analysis between wires, routing, assembly, multiple mini-amplifiers, etc. that justifies why Tesla mechanized the wiring and circuitry the way it did.
We’ll just never see it. Until we see it torn down and analyzed by Munro or explained by Tesla, we won’t know exactly how it’s done.
We’ll just never see it. Until we see it torn down and analyzed by Munro or explained by Tesla, we won’t know exactly how it’s done.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
As @verygreen reported, the part catalog is available. I looked for the 48V - it is under the dash.
It’s called the MV system (mid voltage) not LV.
Has an interior radar. I think that was sort of known.
Has a super horn!
Tires listed for 20” are 285/65R20 Goodyear Wrangler Territory R/T (Rugged Terrain)
Fascia Camera Nozzle for front camera as previously reported - nothing anywhere else.
PCS looks like 48A
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4 door, 1 left front, 1 right front, 1 rear, 1 trailer and 1 USB controllers. So, for instance, rear lights would be fed/operated from the rear controller.
Getting rid of a centralized fuse box and instead using these decentralized, and now 48V, controllers saves a lot of money!
Getting rid of a centralized fuse box and instead using these decentralized, and now 48V, controllers saves a lot of money!
Mostly.
The Etherloop isn't standard four pair, but rather automotive single pair per link. Based on color and shape it looks like it may be TE brand connectors.
Previously it had been discussed as a theoretical option since 48v is within the PoE power range, I wasn't proposing that this is what ended up happening (as we now have real info)
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure in that Munro video they called out using a standard connector. Plus getting gigabit on single pair is not easy.
Yes, a standard automotive connector. There are around a dozen "standard" ethernet connectors depending on the application. And yes, gigabit on a single twisted pair is very much doable and is done.
Edit: BTW, the reason you can do 1 gbps on 1 twisted pair is that you don't have to run it 330' which is what "normal" Ethernet is specified at. Since vehicle lengths are so much shorter, they can up the data rate on a smaller number of pairs. Also, using shielded twisted pair helps too.
IEEE Standards Association
This amendment to IEEE Std 802.3-2015 adds point-to-point 1 Gb/s Physical Layer (PHY) specifications and management parameters for operation on a single twisted-pair copper cable in an automotive application.
standards.ieee.org
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Yeah, I rewatched that part a bunch to verify before posting.
Sandy said thst does not look like an ethernet cable and Pete said it's shielded twisted pair ethernet. 1000Base-T1 is an automotive standard that provides full duplex on a single pair.
Yeah, I wondered if Sandy too was thinking standard CAT 5/5e/6 Ethernet cable/connector, which Tesla is obviously not using.
Amazing really. Top execs at Tesla and at least come across as nice, down-to-earth and easy to talk to people.
Super-informative, mongo! I hope the SQ is important. Regardless of what many say, car audio quality is rarely outstanding, when compared to a reasonable mid-fi or true hi-fi home system. And I don’t mean analog LPs and tubes, but a quality digital system and good speakers
Lol, tubes. I came across a box of vacuum tubes and packages of ancient carbon resistors and caps in 50s to early 60s envelopes and showed a few tubes to some colleagues asking “what do you think this is?” and they all said “a light bulb?”.
Granted, I could have shown them an 8-track tape or a laserdisc and got the same right, but wrong response, so I won’t judge. I never learned of tubes in school, either. They were not even mentioned, but I think magnetic core memory was.
Granted, I could have shown them an 8-track tape or a laserdisc and got the same right, but wrong response, so I won’t judge. I never learned of tubes in school, either. They were not even mentioned, but I think magnetic core memory was.
I didn't understand all that, but thank you nonetheless
Noise cancelation involves using the speakers to generate an out of phase (180 degree) version of the sound. If the phasing is closer to 90 degrees, it adds to it instead. So that sets a limit on processing latency.
However, most noise is repetitive at the cycle level so one can likely shift by multiples of a full cycle and still be effective as long as the latency is constant. Though lag does mean it will be less responsive to changes in noise spectrum. This would also requires a linear phase shift vs frequency to back out the latency.
At 10kHz, the waveform repeats every 100 uS. So 50uS of jitter would make the system a noise adder instead of a noise canceler.
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