All discussion of Lucid Motors

[Krugerrand]

Supply chain is in worse shape today. And Tesla often simply removes the part (radar, passenger lumbar, ultrasonics and on and on).

It’s not worse today. Give me a break. Context much? How quickly you don’t want to give Tesla any credit. No tier 1 and few tier 2 suppliers wanted to deal with Tesla or extend them any credit in their beginning years. Tesla was handed off to the also ran suppliers. They had to scratch and claw for every third party part. Tesla literally paved the way for everyone who followed. Running down to Frey’s to get USB cables, air freighting tires from the Czech Republic, waiting on trunk carpet for Model S from Mexico because of a cartel shoot out at the border, having one of their Asian suppliers burn to the ground, there was even a supply boat that sank. The list is endless.

And no, Tesla just does not delete parts if they can’t get them. Tell your lies to someone who hasn’t been around longer than 5 seconds.

Lucid is a better product in many ways. More range, more power, faster charging, higher end materials, etc. But you have to be able to market. I've said for years Rawlinson has no clue when it comes to marketing, either targeting or promotion.

Musk's ability to sell almost 2m near-identical cars at 50k+ ASP is absolutely unprecedented. Then on top of that he has people lining up to pay $15k for FSD!

Lucid targeted the high end German sedan customer. They went the opposite way of Tesla's spartan one-size-fits-all approach, emphasizing luxury/comfort with lots of configurations/options. This requires more parts from more suppliers. It also means that even at the planned 30k cars/year he would buy many of these parts in low thousands or even hundreds of units. It's one thing to spend R&D and tooling to "make it yourself" at 100k/year (S/X) or 1m++/year (3/Y), but financial suicide to do all that for 2k units per year.

Plus they positioned as the "Mercedes of EVs" -- but funding delays meant the real Mercedes was already selling EQS by the time Lucid shipped.

FYI, Lucid is done like their original name of Atieva. The Saudis will get tired of propping them up. Should have been smarter, they could have had Tesla.

 

[RobStark]

From 1000 - 2000? LOL. Smooth talking CEO's with no track record of success (Allegedly says he was chief engineer of the model S) are a recipe for disaster IMHO.

Tesla website for many years said Peter was chief engineer for Model S.

Peter needs to have some babies with celebrities to get some free publicity.

Elon had success online and got booted from Paypal CEO before re-founding Tesla.

Elon had zero experience in manufacturing before starting Tesla and SpaceX.

Peter had automotive experience before going to Tesla.

 

[kbM3]

Supply chain is in worse shape today. And Tesla often simply removes the part (radar, passenger lumbar, ultrasonics and on and on).


Lucid is a better product in many ways. More range, more power, faster charging, higher end materials, etc. But you have to be able to market. I've said for years Rawlinson has no clue when it comes to marketing, either targeting or promotion.

Musk's ability to sell almost 2m near-identical cars at 50k+ ASP is absolutely unprecedented. Then on top of that he has people lining up to pay $15k for FSD!

Lucid targeted the high end German sedan customer. They went the opposite way of Tesla's spartan one-size-fits-all approach, emphasizing luxury/comfort with lots of configurations/options. This requires more parts from more suppliers. It also means that even at the planned 30k cars/year he would buy many of these parts in low thousands or even hundreds of units. It's one thing to spend R&D and tooling to "make it yourself" at 100k/year (S/X) or 1m++/year (3/Y), but financial suicide to do all that for 2k units per year.

Plus they positioned as the "Mercedes of EVs" -- but funding delays meant the real Mercedes was already selling EQS by the time Lucid shipped.

Of course. Elon not only tricks people into buying the cars, he constantly keeps in touch with them so they always rate their car highly on satisfaction surveys and more likely than not want another Tesla, the next time.

It’s got to be Jedi mind tricks and has nothing to do with the inherent value of the product

 

[calm-one]

Do they really need to make more? I think they have about 5 months worth of inventory right now. (It might be smaller than that, as they are starting to ship cars internationally.)

But they are having supplier issues, apparently they can't get the parts to make the configurations that people actually want to be. (They mention problems with the "stealth" parts multiple times during the call.)

Peter repeatedly said that production is no longer a bottleneck. Their bottlenecks are part supplies and willing buyers.

Going to agree with the "...and willing buyers." point.

I happened to be in Oakbrook IL where Lucid has a retail showroom where Tesla once did.

I was told I could get a Air Grand Touring delivered in about two weeks. With 28k vehicle reservation backlog I was surprised.

I was impressed by what I saw comparing against my ownership of two Model S's I enjoy. I thought the Cosmos Silver - Platinum meshed well; not a fan of Platinum for other colors sans Stellar White. Seeing interiors in person versus online really helps.

The dealbuster was that I had a hard time getting into and out of the vehicle. At 6' I had to contort, alot. At just over 50 my neck and back complain enough without extra help. We did try having the front seat all the way back and as low as it went plus steering wheel adjusted inwardly. Just ackward - and one of the showroom employees demonstated and they were 6'3 or taller, but only via contortion and will. I do not have a similar issue with my current Model S.

Regardless, delivery was stated at two weeks.

 

[kcveins]

Going to agree with the "...and willing buyers." point.

I happened to be in Oakbrook IL where Lucid has a retail showroom where Tesla once did.

I was told I could get a Air Grand Touring delivered in about two weeks. With 28k vehicle reservation backlog I was surprised.

I was impressed by what I saw comparing against my ownership of two Model S's I enjoy. I thought the Cosmos Silver - Platinum meshed well; not a fan of Platinum for other colors sans Stellar White. Seeing interiors in person versus online really helps.

The dealbuster was that I had a hard time getting into and out of the vehicle. At 6' I had to contort, alot. At just over 50 my neck and back complain enough without extra help. We did try having the front seat all the way back and as low as it went plus steering wheel adjusted inwardly. Just ackward - and one of the showroom employees demonstated and they were 6'3 or taller, but only via contortion and will. I do not have a similar issue with my current Model S.

Regardless, delivery was stated at two weeks.

We must be the same person... I was there 3 weeks ago and had the same issue .
No doubt it is a beautiful car, but a very tight fit

 

[Knightshade]

Didn't Saudi order like 50-100k Lucids? You'd think they'd ship unsold ones over there to at least make the "delivered" number look slightly less embarrassing for a while...

 

[Electroman]

As I said it is a great car with excellent range... just bring the price down by $20K and partner with Tesla for SuperChargers. They will sell a LOT.

 

[MP3Mike]

Didn't Saudi order like 50-100k Lucids? You'd think they'd ship unsold ones over there to at least make the "delivered" number look slightly less embarrassing for a while...

I'm not positive, but I think they said the build is different. (Maybe just a CCS Type 2 inlet instead of CCS Type 1, but there may be other regulatory related differences as well.)

 

[bkp_duke]

As I said it is a great car with excellent range... just bring the price down by $20K and partner with Tesla for SuperChargers. They will sell a LOT.

If Lucid would say . . . adopt the Tesla charging port, it would be a game-changer for them. Overnight it would make their cars much more attractive.

Seriously, who buys a $150k+ sedan and wants to charge it at an Electrify America charger at . . . Walmart?

 

[DBV1]

If Lucid would say . . . adopt the Tesla charging port, it would be a game-changer for them. Overnight it would make their cars much more attractive.

Seriously, who buys a $150k+ sedan and wants to charge it at an Electrify America charger at . . . Walmart?

Complete agree. EA and other non Tesla chargers are Lucid’s biggest issue. I keep contemplating to get an Air Touring this month and sell my 2021 refresh Model S, but would greatly miss the Tesla Supercharging Network, which is a huge advantage for Tesla.

I really like my Model S, which is my first EV, but I really like a lot about the Lucid too and the fact that hopefully someday it will also have CarPlay.

 

[MP3Mike]

If Lucid changed to NACS Tesla charge port and cut a deal with Tesla for accessing SuperChargers, and can reduce the cost by $20K then I am sure they can double their sales overnight.

Well, so much for that idea. The Wonderbox apparently isn't so wonderful, as it can only charge at a maximum of 50kW from a ~500v charger like a Supercharger.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631031128327872513

 

[chinney]

Complete agree. EA and other non Tesla chargers are Lucid’s biggest issue. I keep contemplating to get an Air Touring this month and sell my 2021 refresh Model S, but would greatly miss the Tesla Supercharging Network, which is a huge advantage for Tesla.

I really like my Model S, which is my first EV, but I really like a lot about the Lucid too and the fact that hopefully someday it will also have CarPlay.

Lucid’s biggest issue is that they are really not producing many cars.

 

[MP3Mike]

Lucid’s biggest issue is that they are really not producing many cars.

No, their biggest problem is that they aren't selling many cars. (They had ~6 months of inventory as of 12/31/22.)

 

[tivoboy]

Lucid’s biggest issue is that they are really not producing many cars.

Lucid’s biggest issue seems to be that nobody really wants to buy even the limited production they are making.

 

[Fred42]

Complete agree. EA and other non Tesla chargers are Lucid’s biggest issue. I keep contemplating to get an Air Touring this month and sell my 2021 refresh Model S, but would greatly miss the Tesla Supercharging Network, which is a huge advantage for Tesla.

I really like my Model S, which is my first EV, but I really like a lot about the Lucid too and the fact that hopefully someday it will also have CarPlay.

Why would you buy a car from a company that looks so likely to be going under? There might not be options for needed repairs or a resale market.

 

[smogne41]

Why would you buy a car from a company that looks so likely to be going under? There might not be options for needed repairs or a resale market.

I am sure that is making a large number of potential buyers very hesitant. Also, this is a tough economic time to be launching something this high end probably.

 

[RobStark]

No, their biggest problem is that they aren't selling many cars. (They had ~6 months of inventory as of 12/31/22.)

They cranked up output in December to meet their production goal.

And didn't have time to deliver by 12/31/22.

A lot of those cars were on boats to Europe and the Middle East.

It seems they are out of Grand Touring silver trim reservations in North America as of now. You can buy those out of stock for immediate delivery.

And don't have all the parts to increase production of the Grand Touring "Stealth" charcoal grey trims, Tourings and Pures that buyers are waiting for.

 

[DBV1]

Why would you buy a car from a company that looks so likely to be going under? There might not be options for needed repairs or a resale market.

Yes. That does make me hesitant, but then again they have strong backing buy the Saudis. I would lease too and not buy. We could say the same thing about Tesla when it started, but now the market conditions are totally different and market is much more competitive.

 

[MP3Mike]

They cranked up output in December to meet their production goal.

They didn't say that, and it doesn't seem to be true. They made 3,493 vehicles in Q4, and their inventory was ~3,200. So are you saying that they made almost no vehicles in October and November?

And didn't have time to deliver by 12/31/22.

A lot of those cars were on boats to Europe and the Middle East.

I swear they said that they started making cars for Europe and the Middle East in early 2023 and started shipping them, not that they started making/shipping them in 2022.

I guess we will find out for sure in about 3 months.

 

[Doggydogworld]

Peter Rawlinson says it's a demand problem:

“We’ve solved production. That is not the gating issue here now,” Rawlinson said. “My focus is on sales. And here’s the thing: We’ve got what I believe to be the very best product in the world. ... Too few people are aware of not just the car, but even the company.”

Rawlinson went on to say he believes that to be an “entirely solvable problem” and plans to focus on “amplifying customer awareness” in 2023.

I've said for many years they created an extraordinary drive train and an excellent car, but Rawlinson doesn't know how to market.

Timeline delay due to funding problems in 2016-18 also hurt badly (I said at the time Mercedes should buy them, but alas...). Anyway, their goal was to capture luxury sedan buyers who liked Tesla's performance and green cred but were put off by the spartan interiors and one-size-fits-all approach. But by the time they finally got to market EQS was already available plus Taycan/e-tron GT, BMW iX, etc.