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Another dumb idea, pedestrian low speed noise makers.

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Yep now you see that it gets pretty absurd pretty quick huh? Or maybe you are just missing my point. I see the general statement of "the disregard for human life" in combination with "if one life is saved that the cost has been worth it" is an over simplification and a lot of times unrealistic view.

Also, for the record, I don't have a problem with adding noise makers to vehicles at the low speeds where it would make a difference.

The discussion was about the noise makers. If you'd like to discuss pedestrian bridges, please feel free to start a thread about them. I'll be the first person in there saying they're quite feasible in lots of urban areas, and then can even add beauty to city streets when done right. I did not say I don't find them worthwhile, I pointed out that the cost difference for a solution that works (admittedly not perfectly) makes pedestrian bridges "beyond expensive".

This is like arguing that all intersections should be round-abouts. Yes, they're safer than most other types of N-way intersection, and yes they keep traffic flowing much more optimally. But we don't have the physical space for them everywhere we have intersections. So, because of the physical and financial constraints, we use the optimal solution for the situation. Just like we add safety features like dedicated cross walks, pedestrian warning lights, pedestrian control lights, audible pedestrian signals for the hard of hearing, textured surfaces and wheel chair accessible ramps on cross walk entry and exit paths, ridged surfaces that are detectable with a walking stick for the visually impaired, metallic reflective surfaces on the ground at cross walks that can be detected by autonomous vehicles, and so on. All of those systems, in aggregate, save many lives while each one individually may seem insignificant.
 
The discussion was about the noise makers.

Great, lets go back to the beginning... OP complained about the noise maker in general and said they would remove it. You said the "disregard for human life" etc. So can you point me to the study that I am disregarding, that says the quietness of HV/EV's is the cause for the higher incidence of pedestrian crashes between HV/EV's and ICE vehicles.
 
I just hope that Tesla keeps Elon's sense of humor and allows us to configure the sound.

I can't decide if I want to have my car doing "Charge of the Valkyries" or the spaceship sound form "The Jetsons".

I think that would go against the regulation. Manufacturers have to keep the sound the same for the same model year for the same model so I don't see any customization.
 
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Great, lets go back to the beginning... OP complained about the noise maker in general and said they would remove it. You said the "disregard for human life" etc. So can you point me to the study that I am disregarding, that says the quietness of HV/EV's is the cause for the higher incidence of pedestrian crashes between HV/EV's and ICE vehicles.

I've already linked it in the thread.
 
I just hope that Tesla keeps Elon's sense of humor and allows us to configure the sound.

I can't decide if I want to have my car doing "Charge of the Valkyries" or the spaceship sound form "The Jetsons".

You can not configure the sounds. The only variance allowed is that different trim levels of the same model may have slightly different sounds. Otherwise, a model within a brand needs to share the same noise. The point is to be able to identify the noise as coming from a vehicle, not space invaders.
 
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I've already linked it in the thread.

Let me rephrase... please quote from your source where the study concludes that there is a link between the quietness of vehicles and crashes. It's not there. There was no study that even tried to find a link because they never asked people whether they heard the vehicle that hit them or not... They didn't look at police reports to look for a quietness link.

My point with all this now is that the idea of putting noise makers on cars all started with a blind persons association claiming they "were concerned" about the quietness of these vehicles but there was no data that showed there was a problem. I am not saying that noise makers shouldn't be implemented, but that there is no study that shows they would help or that there is a problem in the first place.
 
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For those interested in the applicable studies and statute that started all of this...

https://www.congress.gov/111/plaws/publ373/PLAW-111publ373.pdf

https://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NVS/Crash Avoidance/Technical Publications/2010/811304rev.pdf
this report references this study https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811204

https://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/NVS/Crash Avoidance/Technical Publications/2011/811496.pdf

There is nothing that links crashes with the "quietness" of a vehicle. The studies show there is a higher incidence of crashes at low speeds with HV/EV vehicles but they only look at maneuver correlations, not any correlation based on the quietness of the vehicle.
 
For those interested in the applicable studies and statute that started all of this...

The NHTSA crashstats report here https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812371. The latest update to the ongoing study. A single google search found these results for me months ago. It's not even hard to find, but here you are claiming there's no evidence supporting the legislation.

For anyone too lazy, I'll quote the summary which explains the bit about the Honda hybrid that leaves its ICE running and everything.

This report updates earlier National Highway Traffic Safety Administration research that compared pedestrian and pedalcyclist crash involvement rates for hybrid and electric (HE) vehicles to rates for internal combustion engines (ICE) vehicles in 16 States. In the earlier research in 2009, the pedes trian crash odds ratios (OR) were based on only 77 pedestrian crashes of five Honda and Toyota HE vehicle models at all speeds in all types of driving maneuvers (OR=1.40). A follow-on study in 2011 using case-control methodology had the same five HE vehicles involved in 186 pedestrian crashes (OR=1.35), and the pedestrian crashes increased to 244 when all HE models were included (OR=1.22). This current report updates those earlier efforts with data from the same 16 States, some with data now available up to 2011, in which the sample size of HE vehicles in all crashes is increased to 68,950 and resulting in 420 pedestrian crashes for all HE vehicle models. Using this larger sample size for analysis results in the pedestrian crash odds ratio of 1.20 for HE versus ICE when all vehicles models and speeds/maneuvers are included. In addition to this result, if HE versions of Honda models are re-categorized as ICE (since their engines keep running during low-speed maneuvers), then the pedestrian crash odds ratio is slightly modified to 1.21. Furthermore, if additional risk factors such as city size, vehicle maneuvers, and vehicle age are considered simultaneously, the HE/ICE pedestrian crash odds ratio tends to decrease slightly (from 1.20 to 1.17 approximately). The pedestrian odds ratio would be higher if the analyses are limited to low-speed maneuvers only (OR=1.52). In this report similar analyses are also performed using pedalcyclist crash data, and hybrid vehicles had approximately 50 percent higher likelihood of pedalcyclist crashes than ICE vehicles.​
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The NHTSA crashstats report here https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812371. The latest update to the ongoing study. A single google search found these results for me months ago. It's not even hard to find, but here you are claiming there's no evidence supporting the legislation.

And yet there is no data in that report that links QUIETNESS to crashes, or even shows based on data that it is a contributing factor. It links HV/EV vs ICE to crashes but not the REASON for the crash. Again show me in the reference where there is a link to the reason for the crashes. Here are a few quotes from the doc:

"... various organizations...have raised safety concerns..."
not based on data

"...The concern is that HE vehicles are harder to hear...and that this heightens the risk..."
not based on data

"Many risk factors may contribute to pedestrian and pedal-cyclist crashes, and some emerging risk factors, such as distracted driving, distracted walking, and environmental noise level, need to be explored with much larger/newer crash data, if such data is available."

"Many risk factors may contribute to pedestrian crashes besides the sound pressure level or engine/power type."

"Many other risk factors or predictors such as weather, light, engine/tire/environmental noises, and road condition may contribute to pedestrian crashes. Missing data are common-place for State data; therefore, it is not very possible to include all risk factors into the multiple factor modeling."
 
HUh. We are an all EV family. Angela drives a smart ED convertible and I drive a Leaf. Both our EV’s have low speed noise makers that work under 30 km/h. Until now I thought that all EV’s had these devices. Is this just a Canadian thing? The smart has a low Silon from Battlestar galáctica kinda sound and the Leaf a higher pitch type of sound. Come to think of it I didn’t hear anything in our test drive of a model 3 in Palm Springs in December.

To set anybodies mind at ease, you don’t even notice the sound unless your in your garage or maybe a quiet underground parking. Very quiet inside the cars. I think they are meant to project forward. And by the way, they work. People know when you are coming.

Your thread title starts with the word "another".

List some of the others for us if you don't mind.
 
Our other vehicle is a Prius Prime (PHEV); it emits a gentle whirring noise at low speed. I can't hear it in the car, except when the windows are down at crawling speeds on a quiet street, or when pulling into the garage. With windows up, or at speeds greater than 5mph with the windows down (wind noise masks it) , it can't be heard from inside the vehicle.

Odd little noises tend to drive me nuts, but this doesn't bother me at all. After owning the car for a month, I was hardly aware of it anymore.

As a cyclist, I've had a few incidents in town where I didn't hear near-silent EV's coming up behind me from behind at intersections, tight spots without bike lanes, etc. (About every 10th car in Chapel Hill is an EV these days.) It can be startling. I can imagine the difficulty it could present to blind pedestrians.

I have noticed as a pedestrian that at anything over 15 mph, an approaching EV makes a similar amount of noise as a quiet ICE car, due to tire and wind noise.

So I personally think the Toyota whirring noise at low speed is a good solution. OTOH, sounding like an ICE car really WOULD bug me!