Anthony Levandowski beats Tesla's Elon Musk to first Auto Cross country (3k Miles, 0 disengagement)

[mongo]

“The team tried to tell me that it wasn’t a disengagement, but I said, I can’t touch the steering wheel, brake or gas otherwise everybody’s going to look for the gotcha. So we came back to San Francisco,” recalls Levandowski.

So they disabled the BTSI?
Yes, the article calls out that scheduled rest/ gas stops were manual. Which means this system is good for one tank of gas, assuming you start on the highway. Tesla is working the full start to destination system, so not sure why this subset only system has any bearing on them, nor how any other team's progress, short of the goal, indicates anything about any other team.

Stanford was doing FSD in 2005 for the DARPA Grand Challenge, including passing other competitors, that also has no bearing on Tesla.

 

[Tam]

The credibility issues still follow Anthony Levandowski.

There's no question that his demo can be done today but the question is how reliable is his system.

Uber was so impressed with his demo of autonomous Otto hauling beers and Uber bought the company and gave him huge compensation (until he was forced out due to ethical issues).

Now, 2 years later, maybe Uber realized that it was tricked and it has abandoned its autonomous trucking business.

 

[Bladerskb]

Right, hardware. Tesla constantly updates the software to make it perform better than when it was first released in late 2015.

Hardware and software belongs to mobileye

So they disabled the BTSI?
Yes, the article calls out that scheduled rest/ gas stops were manual. Which means this system is good for one tank of gas, assuming you start on the highway. Tesla is working the full start to destination system, so not sure why this subset only system has any bearing on them, nor how any other team's progress, short of the goal, indicates anything about any other team.

Stanford was doing FSD in 2005 for the DARPA Grand Challenge, including passing other competitors, that also has no bearing on Tesla.

Come on man. That's the biggest reach I have ever seen. Tesla's "system" will have to be able to do highway autonomy and since they are struggling at it (NOA) then it shows us their level of progress is behind even a one man army team.

 

[diplomat33]

Controversial engineer: I travelled over 3,000 miles in a self-driving car

These quotes from the above article are quite telling:

"Copilot is still a long way off matching even an average human driver, however. The highway-only system has not been trained to drive on city streets, where pedestrians, cyclists, narrow roads and oncoming traffic make driving exponentially more difficult."

"Completing the transcontinental voyage also took multiple attempts. The first try, in late September, ended on the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah, when the system disengaged on a banked curve in high winds. On its second go, two weeks later, Levandowski says the Copilot worked perfectly for 650 miles, again as far as Utah. But it was too perfect for one Nevada highway patrol officer, who pulled the Prius over after noticing it driving slightly below the speed limit in an area where most drivers were speeding.

“The team tried to tell me that it wasn’t a disengagement, but I said, I can’t touch the steering wheel, brake or gas otherwise everybody’s going to look for the gotcha. So we came back to San Francisco,” recalls Levandowski.

Pronto engineers adjusted the software so that the car would be allowed to travel faster on certain roads, and tried again. On his third trip, Levandowski said that he encountered rain in Nebraska and Illinois, high winds in Wyoming, and a rolled-over semi in Pennsylvania, but eventually made it to the George Washington Bridge without a disengagement."

Copilot is not true self-driving by any stretch of the imagination. The idea that it is "way ahead of Tesla" is laughable.

Basically, he just developed his own version of autopilot which after some failed attempts and tweaks, was finally able to go a really long way on highways without driver input. Nice but not some amazing self-driving feat.

Tesla is aiming for true and reliable full self-driving, where the car can actually self-drive on highways and city streets without driver input. It will take longer to accomplish for sure but it will also be more meaningful that this little stunt.

 

[Bladerskb]

Verge article indicates the fuel stops were manual “planned stops to rest and refuel” but doesn’t really go into detail. So yeah. Cool parlor trick but 3000 miles of lane keeping on a well marked interstate doesn’t seem like any sort of indication of revolutionary performance at this point.

Gotta love Tesla fans.

NOA gets released requiring confirmation and disengagement rate of 10-100 Miles depending on the area..

Tesla fan: "wow a new level of autonomy. With this Tesla is five years ahead of the competition"

A better than NOA is showcased with 3,099 milea without intervention.

Tesla fan: "Cool parlor trick"

 

[Tam]

...struggling...

His Otto demo showed no disengagement. His Prius demo showed none either.

However, when the Guardian is there for a 48-mile test ride:

...at one point, Levandowski took the wheel after the car failed to merge into busy traffic. Such hiccups are called disengagements in the self-driving world. Levandowski attributed the disengagement to the latest version of Pronto’s constantly evolving software."

In a tape, if it fails, he could restart the whole trip again and again, but he can't hide that if there's a third party to witness it.

The struggling part here is:

"the company will interview and then train prospective customers so they know what the system can, and cannot, do."

It proves that the system is not reliable enough for consumers.

He has to

1) select a certain candidate
2) educate them the limitations

 

[mongo]

Hardware and software belongs to mobileye


Come on man. That's the biggest reach I have ever seen. Tesla's "system" will have to be able to do highway autonomy and since they are struggling at it (NOA) then it shows us their level of progress is behind even a one man army team.

What's a reach? My Explore with slightly stronger lane assist might be able to make it cross country too (baring stopped traffic, interchanges, and poor lane markings), but it is is no where near a self driving solution.
My point: Usain Bolt will beat a decathlete in a sprint...

 

[diplomat33]

A better than NOA is showcased with 3,099 milea without intervention.

That's total BS. First, he had disengagements, he just hid them in the promo video, and second, the car failed to merge into busy traffic so it is not better than NOA.

 

[Bladerskb]

What's a reach? My Explore with slightly stronger lane assist might be able to make it cross country too (baring stopped traffic, interchanges, and poor lane markings), but it is is no where near a self driving solution.
My point: Usain Bolt will beat a decathlete in a sprint...

So your explorer lane assist can handle poor lane marking, merging cars, automatic lane changes, highway interchanges (transition from one highway to another) and more.

Gotta love the contradictions. NOA is worshipped when released as next level in autonomy and proving that Tesla is 5 years ahead. Yet its totally crappy.
A clearly better system than NOA is called a "cool parlor trick" and "simple lane keeping system"

Lol @ the cobtradictions.

 

[diplomat33]

The bottom line is that Levandowski is a cheat. He stole tech from Waymo and now he put out a fake "FSD" video to promote his system. The idea that this fake video is proof that his company is "way ahead of Tesla" is preposterous and laughable.

 

[ucmndd]

Gotta love Tesla fans.

NOA gets released requiring confirmation and disengagement rate of 10-100 Miles depending on the area..

Tesla fan: "wow a new level of autonomy. With this Tesla is five years ahead of the competition"

A better than NOA is showcased with 3,099 milea without intervention.

Tesla fan: "Cool parlor trick"

I’m far from an apologist, read through my post history if you want any indication of my general views about Tesla’s defrauding their customers with the whole AP2 fiasco. That said, I am an actual owner with actual experience and visit these forums for reasons other than spreading FUD.

However, I stand by my assessment that NoA can basically do what was shown in that video today, on that route (absent the lane change confirmation).

 

[ucmndd]

The bottom line is that Levandowski is a cheat. He stole tech from Waymo and now he put out a fake "FSD" video to promote his system. The idea that this fake video is proof that his company is "way ahead of Tesla" is preposterous and laughable.

I’m not sure why the jump from reasonable debate to “this video is fake”. What is the basis for that claim?

 

[Bladerskb]

Copilot is not true self-driving by any stretch of the imagination. The idea that it is "way ahead of Tesla" is laughable.

Co-pilot never claimed to be full self driving unlike AP with Elon. The idea that AP is true self driving is laighable. The idea that Tesla is 3, 5, 10 years ahead of the competition is laighable.

Basically, he just developed his own version of autopilot which after some failed attempts and tweaks, was finally able to go a really long way on highways without driver input. Nice but not some amazing self-driving feat.

Notice how autonomous cross country is now all of a sudden just a lane keeping assist system. Yet the Tesla fans bragged about the ability of Tesla to do cross country for over 2+ years to no avail.

Tesla is aiming for true and reliable full self-driving, where the car can actually self-drive on highways and city streets without driver input. It will take longer to accomplish for sure but it will also be more meaningful that this little stunt.

Notice how this is now just a "little stunt" yet it has been the sermon of Tesla fans for years since 2016 for end of 2017 and months following. Shows you the amount of disconnect from reality to the point you are not even hearing yourself

 

[ewoodrick]

What I saw:

• Driving on the Interstate ONLY
• Significant driving in left lane (illegal in some areas)
• All rest stops were manually driven
• Publicity stunt.

This DOES NOT one-up Elon. Elon has specifically said that when he does it, there are no limitations. What I interpret that is that you will hit the start and next action will be stopping at a Supercharger where you plug in, unplug, and then hit start again.

For those of you who are saying that Tesla required intervention for lane changes, that's only because it is a new feature and Tesla doesn't want to take too many chances. But then again, I'm not really sure if the publicity stunt even did lane changes. I wouldn't be surprised if all it did was after the on-ramp to before the off-ramp.

Again, publicity stunt.

And if you read between the lines, FSD isn't where he's going. He's going for long haul truckers that run on Interstates, barely a notch above Cadillacs capabilities.

 

[Bladerskb]

I’m far from an apologist, read through my post history if you want any indication of my general views about Tesla’s defrauding their customers with the whole AP2 fiasco. That said, I am an actual owner with actual experience and visit these forums for reasons other than spreading FUD.

However, I stand by my assessment that NoA can basically do what was shown in that video today, on that route (absent the lane change confirmation).

With 100 disengagments? Okay...what's your point? Because that actually proves my point. People praised Tesla for NOA that it is proof they are 3, 5, 10 years ahead of the competition. Yet the truth is that level 2 highway autonomy is a toy that a one man army can whip up that performs 100x better than AP NOA

 

[ucmndd]

Notice how autonomous cross country is now all of a sudden just a lane keeping assist system. Yet the Tesla fans bragged about the ability of Tesla to do cross country for over 2+ years to no avail.

Trying to resist urge to feed the trolls, but:

You are (purposely) conflating two very different takes on what constitutes a “cross country drive”. Tesla’s stated goal for the cross-country drive was basically a long-distance summon - you call the car from across the country, it finds you at the other end. Charging stops, everything. All of the on/off the interstate complexity involved.

If you fail to acknowledge the difference between that and what was demonstrated by Levandowski (extended interstate cruising with manual intervention by a driver every 500 miles to handle all of the complex tasks like navigating to a fuel station or rest stop), you’re only deluding yourself.

 

[Bladerskb]

That's because a Tesla car is supposed to pick up passengers in Los Angeles for the trip and goes to Times Square and drops them off then finds a parking space on its own to park.

That's only 10 miles of city street driving give or take. You can rack that up by driving around your block. That's literally meanless.

 

[Tam]

I’m not sure why the jump from reasonable debate to “this video is fake”. What is the basis for that claim?

I think it is "fake" in a sense that its reliability cannot be reproduced in all traffic scenarios.

It is true that his videos of Otto and Prius were shown with no disengagement.

But for a Guardian's ride, he had to take the steering wheel over.

 

[mongo]

So your explorer lane assist can handle poor lane marking, merging cars, automatic lane changes, highway interchanges (transition from one highway to another) and more.

Gotta love the contradictions. NOA is worshipped when released as next level in autonomy and proving that Tesla is 5 years ahead. Yet its totally crappy.
A clearly better system than NOA is called a "cool parlor trick" and "simple lane keeping system"

Lol @ the cobtradictions.

Did you drop the "n't" from your "can", or did you misread my statement (that an Explorer can't do real world highway driving, but can ping pong down the road)?

Your OP was about a system that drove a highway, but didn't get on it, off it, or make it to/from the gas station. And you are comparing that against AP2.x which can do highway at some level, plus street at some level.

It your issue with Tesla or with people who, you feel, think too much of Tesla?

 

[Bladerskb]

That's total BS. First, he had disengagements, he just hid them in the promo video, and second, the car failed to merge into busy traffic so it is not better than NOA.

So you are saying he faked the demo. Notice how everything everyone says is fake but elon's promise of level 5 every year that never happens isnt fake

What I saw:

• Driving on the Interstate ONLY
• Significant driving in left lane (illegal in some areas)
• All rest stops were manually driven
• Publicity stunt.

This DOES NOT one-up Elon. Elon has specifically said that when he does it, there are no limitations. What I interpret that is that you will hit the start and next action will be stopping at a Supercharger where you plug in, unplug, and then hit start again.

I'm sorry but until Elon's NOA can do a cross country drive with 3,099 consecutive miles with no interventions, without touching the wheel or steering wheel. Then he's behind co-pilot.