Any clue why range was reduced on MSP but not MSLR?

[sorka]

The Model S LR doesn't have track mode.

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/models/en_us/GUID-4B41E787-8D69-4338-98B8-2F70A76629A8.html#:~:text=Track%20Mode%2C%20available%20only%20on,driving%20on%20closed%20circuit%20courses.

...and yes. I know it doesn't have track mode as I pointed out previously and did NOT claim it did in the post you quoted

One can hope it's entirely due to JUST track mode. Maybe the EPA tested both with dragstrip mode before but I seriously doubt it which means that the LR should have been reduced at least some since dragstrip mode uses a lot of energy keeping the battery at just the right temperature.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

The differences in acceleration and top speed likely explain why LR range did not decrease.

 

[sorka]

The differences in acceleration and top speed likely explain why LR range did not decrease.

View attachment 1013050

The EPA doesn't test faster than 80 mph and they previously accounted for acceleration prior to their testing cycle change for '24.

 

[terranx]

All that said, if you’re banking on a true 300 + mile range, look elsewhere. At best I get 250-260 cruising at 80ish on my 2023. Essentially same range as I’d get on my M3P with similar driving.

 

[sorka]

All that said, if you’re banking on a true 300 + mile range, look elsewhere. At best I get 250-260 cruising at 80ish on my 2023. Essentially same range as I’d get on my M3P with similar driving.

I don't go anywhere near 80 on long trips when range is important. I achieved rated on the MXP on long trips being careful and keeping it between 65 and 70. Not as easy as achieving rated on my P85D which I usually exceeded unless it was really cold, or raining, or both. I once went 265 miles on my P85D (rated for 253) with no elevation change but only by keeping it between 57 and 62.

As long as the MSP gets the previous rated difference above the MXP, we're good. i.e the 2022 rated range on the MXP was 333 with the 20" wheels.....396 on the MSP for the 19" wheels. If actual range on the MSP is proportionally more than the MXP under the same driving conditions, we're good.

At any rate, we're going off topic again.

 

[terranx]

Anecdotally I was able to get much closer to the rated range in our old 70D than I have in any newer teslas. I have occasionally gotten the rated 240 miles there. Never in the M3P or Plaid even when trying to conserve range. I don’t think there’s any circumstance in which you can pull off 333

If you’re driving between 57 and 62, I’d just get an LR.

 

[sorka]

Anecdotally I was able to get much closer to the rated range in our old 70D than I have in any newer teslas. I have occasionally gotten the rated 240 miles there. Never in the M3P or Plaid even when trying to conserve range. I don’t think there’s any circumstance in which you can pull off 333

If you’re driving between 57 and 62, I’d just get an LR.

Why? I want the performance for when range doesn't matter which is 80% of the time.

Again, we're off topic.

 

[terranx]

Why? I want the performance for when range doesn't matter which is 80% of the time.

Again, we're off topic.

Your topic has been answered. There’s no real change. It’s a cosmetic difference trying to show a more realistic (but still greatly exaggerated) range. X is probably more impacted by its terrible aero than the efficiency difference itself.

In any case, you’re not going to get 333 miles in any iteration of the Plaid no matter how you drive. And it’s a pointless car to buy if you drive slow / at legal speeds.

 

[sorka]

Your topic has been answered. There’s no real change. It’s a cosmetic difference trying to show a more realistic (but still greatly exaggerated) range.

Can you site your source to support this claim?

Why didn't the MSLR have a range reduction since it also has dragstrip mode? Why does Tesla claim they made "comfort and functionality" improvements that actually reduce range for real if it wasn't true? It's detriment to them to claim that if the truth is the change is not real and attributed only to the way the EPA does the test? Why would they claim that rather than just say it's an EPA change in testing and not an actual range change?

 

[drtimhill]

As far as I understand the EPA now requires to run the test in all drive modes that are available. The Performance as track mode, Sport and Chill. The SR doesn't. There is no physical change on the car.

Yeah this is also why they removed creep etc modes, as they were less efficient than one pedal driving modes.

 

[sorka]

As far as I understand the EPA now requires to run the test in all drive modes that are available. The Performance as track mode, Sport and Chill. The SR doesn't. There is no physical change on the car.

I missed part of this originally when you posted. The MSLR doesn't have chill mode?

 

[terranx]

I missed part of this originally when you posted. The MSLR doesn't have chill mode?

LR has chill

Edit: Just to be clear, LR has chill, sport, and insane. Also drag strip mode. Plaid has Plaid instead of insane. And the track mode on top of that.

 

[terranx]

So EPA finally uploaded the 2024 Plaid docs. Skimming through it I'm not seeing any hardware changes that explain the range difference. Still 3 250 kW motors, 410 volt / 256Ah battery.

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=59786&flag=1

 

[sorka]

So EPA finally uploaded the 2024 Plaid docs. Skimming through it I'm not seeing any hardware changes that explain the range difference. Still 3 250 kW motors, 410 volt / 250Ah battery.

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=59786&flag=1

The previous year:

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=57010&flag=1

The battery specific energy is listed as lower for 2024.

 

[terranx]

The previous year:

https://dis.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=57010&flag=1

The battery specific energy is listed as lower for 2024!

Hmm, I’d take that with a grain of salt. It’s showing the same capacity and weight. So one of those has to be wrong.

Actually I guess it technically shows the car as 12 lbs heavier. But that wouldn’t be enough to change the specific energy that much

 

[sorka]

Hmm, I’d take that with a grain of salt. It’s showing the same capacity and weight. So one of those has to be wrong.

Actually I guess it technically shows the car as 12 lbs heavier. But that wouldn’t be enough to change the specific energy that much

You're fast. I was just coming to post about that.

 

[terranx]

You're fast. I was just coming to post about that.

So looking through a little closer, it looks like the 2023 certification is actually based on the 2021 test. The 2024 is a new test with an actual 2024 car. So I suppose any of the software changes from 2021 to now could be accounting for the difference. The vibration fix comes to mind, though I can’t account for why the X wouldn’t be hit by that as hard.

Edit: Actually now that I think of it, track mode wasn’t a thing initially in 2021. So that might be the difference.

 

[sorka]

Where's the total battery capacity listed in kwh or equivalent? Does it say what the wh/mile was over x distance in the tests? How can we tell from the document how much of the battery capacity is used vs what left for anti brick buffer?

 

[terranx]

Where's the total battery capacity listed in kwh or equivalent? Does it say what the wh/mile was over x distance in the tests? How can we tell from the document how much of the battery capacity is used vs what left for anti brick buffer?

So if you go by the voltage (410) and capacity (256 Ah), you get 105 kWh. In the test results, the “end soc” is about 98kwh through most of the tests. So I guess that implies a 7 kWh buffer?

 

[sorka]

So if you go by the voltage (410) and capacity (256 Ah), you get 105 kWh. In the test results, the “end soc” is about 98kwh through most of the tests. So I guess that implies a 7 kWh buffer?

Strange. My MXP BMS reported 97 kwh with 94 kwh usable when new which nearly jived perfectly with the 284 wh/mile rated and the 332 miles although that calculation says 331 miles based on 94kwh. Actually, come to think of it is slight more than 97 and slightly more than 94 kwh so it might actually work out since I think the round 332.6 up to 333.