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... Remember that AWD might help you go vs 2wd, but it's useless at stopping ...
Tires are going to make far more difference than 2wd vs awd. A lot of the car magazines have done multiple tests of this and proven it. Tire rack has some good articles on the subject also. Remember that AWD might help you go vs 2wd, but it's useless at stopping. That's where snow tires really make a difference.
That has been my experience over the last 3 winters. My RWD Model S with Nokian Hakka R2 winter tires has been outstanding. There has never once been a situation where I thought that AWD would have made it through where my RWD wouldn't. Sure, you can't accelerate from a stop as quickly in the snow, but once underway, it's all about the tires for steering and stopping.
I'm sorry, but an AWD Model S should far outperform a RWD Model S in snowy conditions. There are plenty of situations that my RWD model S could not make it through when a friends AWD Audi or Benz had no issues. I realize the benefits of snow tires. I've lived in New England my entire life. I have also had snow tires on my S85 for the last two years and while the traction is OK, I have been caught at the bottom of my driveway (a ramp to a courtyard/driveway area) more than a handful of times due to ice/snow. AWD must provide some additional benefit to uphill traction vs. a RWD vehicle with the same tires on it, no?
I think what mknox was saying is that snow tires = stopping and maneuvering power, AWD = starting power. Most people think AWD gives them more stopping power, when it doesn't.
I can't answer your question, as living in DC I have yet to need snow tires (though I know some forum members here are adamant about putting them on, even in DC). But from the last winter you guys had in MA when you were pummeled with snow, besides that one instance, how did your RWD do?
I get the start/stop thing... It was the comment "There has never once been a situation where I thought that AWD would have made it through where my RWD wouldn't." I just can't believe that to be true.
Let me qualify that a bit. I have the Nokian Hakka R2 tires which I find to be outstanding. I think that makes a huge difference. On two separate occasions, I happened to have Tesla loaners while mine was in for service on very bad snow days. One of the days was so bad, they didn't even get to my car in the shop because the techs couldn't get in to work. The loaners had the Tesla Pirelli winter package and they were noticeably poor compared to my car. I got stuck in my driveway with the loaner, yet my own car has no problem whatsoever in the same or worse conditions. In that situation, AWD with the Pirellis probably would have helped.
I have had many 4WD and AWD cars. Prior to the Model S I had a GMC Envoy (4WD) and Cadillac CTS (AWD). The Caddy with AWD was great, but once the snow got to a certain height, the limiting factor was the ground clearance of the car. The Envoy could ride over deeper snow simply because it sat higher. I am going in to my 4th winter with the Model S and the last two were particularly brutal. In road/snow conditions and depths that my AWD Cadillac could traverse, I have found that my RWD Model S can handle just as well. As I say, I haven't come to a point where my Model S won't go where the Caddy would. Now there are certainly areas that I could traverse in my Envoy that I know neither the AWD Cadillac nor the Model S could get through, but again, that was due to how deep the snow is.
I have an 85D and live in the Sierra Nevada mountains in Northern California. I've driven it a fair amount in snow since I picked it up Feb 2015. This includes several trips over mountain passes (Donner and Spooner) during big storms with quite a bit of ice and snow on the road.Thanks, JeffS
OK...so a lot of folks with RWD Tesla's justifying why there is no need to get AWD...I get it. I've had a RWD model S that has been through 3 winters. It's good, not great.
Now, does anyone have any true experience in an AWD in the snow?
OK...so a lot of folks with RWD Tesla's justifying why there is no need to get AWD...I get it. I've had a RWD model S that has been through 3 winters. It's good, not great.
Now, does anyone have any true experience in an AWD in the snow?
Thanks for clarifying, mKnox. I have snow tires as well...they do make a great difference. I didn't have a Caddy, but my old Infiniti G35XS outperforms my RWD model S in the snow.
I have some fresh and direct experience here.
Conclusion: I feel strongly the 70D is night-and-day in the snow over my old S60, here in Colorado winter. This is with direct experience with both cars * with identical snow tires *.
Snow tires: 245/45R-19 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-32
In September 2014 we got a 60 (non-AWD). We were thrilled with the car. Then winter came. The car was really bad in the snow. I wish it weren't the case, but it was.
(We keep snow tires on all of our cars--we actually had the Tesla dealer install snow tires when we took delivery of the S60 in Sep 2014).
In my direct experience, the S60 was challenging to drive on the snow. Once we got stuck on a slight hill - at a red light--and there was like 0.5in of snow on the ground that had just fallen. Traction control was always engaging. It was very slippery. Once I even had the backend start to slip out just doing 30mph around town. Traction control kicked in, otherwise, I would have be in the curb or worse.
This was the primary reason why I jumped at the 70D in April. There was no way we could drive this car long-term in the winter here. I didn't think twice. I got the same car, same color, same options--just AWD.
The 70D in stark contrast, is an order of magnitude better in the snow. This is with an identical set of snow tires. This is how a car should behave in the snow (we've had several storms here in Colorado to test in). I feel much more confident in the 70D. It is simply night and day, no question about it. The car is almost as solid as my Q5 (AWD) with snow tires, which is the best car I've driven in the snow (a tank).
My go-to test, I do every day: Pulling out of my driveway onto the snowy, icy neighborhood street--I do some solid acceleration from 0 to 25. The 70D sticks, traction control doesn't engage, and my throttle is NOT limited, the car goes--as if it's dry.
With the S60, the limiter kicked in, acceleration was slow, tentative, traction control on, slipping and sliding. I literally had to nurse the car to start.
I am beside myself at the difference in experience of the 70D vs 60, and am so grateful that the AWD in the 70D is so effective. We are much safer in the 70D in the snow (and I was pretty nervous before). I cannot recommend a non-D Tesla S in the snow. I can very much recommend the 70D for snow driving (with a set of snow tires). It was so important to me I took the loss on the S60 in order to be safer in the winter (and any slushy driving conditions).
I am beside myself at the difference in experience of the 70D vs 60, and am so grateful that the AWD in the 70D is so effective. We are much safer in the 70D in the snow (and I was pretty nervous before).
Is it really true that AWD/4WD, more specifically having a powered front axle, does not help with steering in slippery conditions? I can't imagine how that would be the case...having powered wheels pulling you in the direction they are aimed as opposed to being just aimed but not powered.
Is it really true that AWD/4WD, more specifically having a powered front axle, does not help with steering in slippery conditions? I can't imagine how that would be the case...having powered wheels pulling you in the direction they are aimed as opposed to being just aimed but not powered.