Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Any reason not to hook up a battery tender to the 12 volt battery ?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
See this post. There is a relay dedicated to the 12v port. Just remove it and plug a jumper wire in its place.

Near annual replacement of 12V battery is typical according to Tesla Service Tech - Page 15

This shows the relay location:
View attachment 100813

and a closeup showing where to plug in a short jumper with spade lugs:
View attachment 100814

To take this one step further...

If the lighter socket makes a viable charging point with this jumper in place... that means you have a charger in the interior of the car and the concern of having to get the plug out to an outlet (through a window was suggested.) Not good for winters here, or rain.

Why not just make the relay jumper with an extra leg pigtail off one side so the ctek charger can be located in the frunk and use the jumper as the charge point.

I was originally thinking of putting my ctek in the frunk and attaching right to the battery terminals.. but why bother? (my 12v battery is buried in that awkward spot that original RWD cars have).

I was also thinking of getting one of those coil-o-matic extension cord winders and mounting somewhere hidden up front. THen having a 120V plug hanging out / accessible from the exterior of the car somewhere low out the front... just grab it and pull out and plug in. I have a 120v outlet handily located in my garage at the front of the car.

So ... I'd do a double plug-in at night, HPWC at the rear, and this 12v tender at the front.

For dramatic effect at EV events or parking lots... I could just nose up to any 120v outlet and pull out the coiled plug from the front of the car and tell people I'm "charging up"... it wouldn't be lying.
 
Last edited:
To take this one step further...

If the lighter socket makes a viable charging point with this jumper in place... that means you have a charger in the interior of the car and the concern of having to get the plug out to an outlet (through a window was suggested.) Not good for winters here, or rain.

Why not just make the relay jumper with an extra leg pigtail off one side so the ctek charger can be located in the frunk and use the jumper as the charge point.

I had other reasons for shunting the relay to keep the 12v socket live. And, once I'd done that, since I park inside in a garage, the simplest (for me) was to plug the charger into the 12v socket. The charger itself is outside the car in my case as there it came with a decently long cable on the 12v output side.

There are lots of valid alternatives like yours.

I do end up doing a 'double plug-in' at night.

I just came back from a 2-week vacation, and the 12v charger was plugged in the whole time, but not the HPWC (which is unusual for me to leave out, but before I left, I was doing things in the garage and didn't want to dance around the HPWC cable, so it wasn't plugged in. I forgot to plug it in before leaving, but it didn't matter. With the 12v charger connected, the rated range was 195mi when I left, and 195 when I came back - no vampire drain on the big battery to occasionally recharge the 12v battery as the car's internal always-on stuff was being powered by the 12v charger. And, no cycling (wear) on the 12v battery constantly being discharged and recharged. If I had remembered to plug the HPWC in, there would have been no difference; the car would have never drawn power from the HPWC (Your mileage may vary if parked outside in super cold temps with HPWC plugged in; the car may decide to warm itself)
 
Here is a photo of my 12V charging setup ... the CTEK charger is plugged into the garage door unit and serves both the Model S and P car. :cool:

IMG_5507.JPG
 
My neighbor who does not work on cars just had his 12 volt battery replaced. He does not look forward to doing this every 12-18 months. He asked me if I could hook up a Battery Tender to his 12 volt battery. It looks pretty simple to me to do this. He would like to top off his 12 volt battery for 8 hours once a month. He intends to do this while not charging the main battery. Any one have any concerns on why he should not do this ?
Because you don't need to?.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snerruc and Tree95
It maybe a stupid question (I do not know enough of batteries, I'm a software architect), but wouldn't the problem be solvable by using a Li-ion or NiMH based 12V battery instead of the Lead-acid ?

ZsoZso I agree with you. I'm no expert either, but if 12V lithium car batteries can be cycled 5-10X more times than lead acid, the extra cost may be a wash, or better; and worth it if it means changing it out less often. At least a good bridge until better solution to deal with vampire drain.
And because Tesla and Gigafactory.... :)
 
Update: well i did justwhat I said and made a relay jumper with pigtail, and attached my ctek 4.3 to the pigtail as its charging point. Now Ive got an always on lighter socket too, which is good because i wanted dashcam to continue rolling while parked and unattended which it can now (i choose when i want this because I'm using the ligther plug to power the cam

I haven't done the wind-o-matic extension thingy yet, so the 120v side of the ctek is hanging out a popped open frunk.

It's drawing power from the wall about 20W, and getting warm, doing its LED sequence thing... so all seems good. I have a kill-o-watt meter on the outlet so I can see what it draws.

Question to the crowd, what step in the sequence does the LED spend most of its time on when trickle charging like this, for those who have a ctek?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tree95
That seems like an ideal solution for people who are willing to do very minor mod to their car. But I think there's probably a lot of people for whom it would be too much trouble to buy a suitable 12V PSU/charger, mod their car, and plug in 2 plugs every day. I wonder if there's a better solution for the masses which is technically almost as good.

Problem space: vampire load seems to be about 20Watt (W), drawing down on the sealed lead-acid battery (SLA). This battery is a adsorbent glass mat (AGM) 12 volt (12V), 33Amp-hour (Ahr) battery. 20W is about 1.5Amps (A). Every 4-5 hours, there has been about 7Amps taken out of the battery, and something closes contactors, the high voltage DC to low voltage DC charger powers up, and charges the SLA 12V battery from the main battery. Once the SLA battery is charged to a certain level, the contactors open, and the whole process starts again. While the DC-DC charger is running, some other stuff is also running, so the net effect of losses in the DC-DC process, and other unnecessary load is that the vampire load is ultimately served by the main battery, but by the time it's served at that level, it looks more like a 40W load. If the car is plugged in to a charger, every day or two it will turn on the main battery charger to boost it back to where it was.
The SLA is charged in the following situations:
* Car actively 'on' (driving)
* Car actively charging (not just plugged in)
* dedlcated 'recharge' cycle

How's this fit for a solution (manual solution for now, but could all be done automatically in software in theory):
I saw a vid of a guy charging his model S (MS) off a small 110V AC petrol generator. In the center console he was able to specify how many amps the MS should draw, right down to 1A. If you want to charge to 80%, you'd plug in at home as normal, charge to 80, then go in to the car just before it hits 80%, and set the charge rate down to 1A and the charge limit to 90%. That's about 120W going in to the car, enough to maintain the vampire load, without draining the SLA, and put a tiny dribble in to the main battery. That dribble could continue until the battery hit 90%, about 3-4 days later, or never if you drive you MS at least every 3 days.

Here's the question - what's the downside I'm not seeing? Is there a downside to charging the main battery (very slowly) for long periods of time? Is there other equipment active when the main battery is charging that will wear out if left on too long?

If this is a viable option, then software changes are all that's needed to make this work for most people - TeslaMotors could change the software to have an extra setting 'dribble charge %', default it to 5 or 10%, and most of the teslas out there would suddenly only be cycling their 12V battery when they're parked up away from their home charger. Average cycles per day would go from 5ish to 1ish, making tens of thousands of batteries last 5 times longer.
Too good to be true - what am I missing?
 
there was a thread a few months ago on this subject. Ingineer and Flasher Z were on it. one owner went on a trip and left his car not plugged in and on a 12 v charger. When he came back the traction battery had lost 0 range. i believe Ingineer said you need to use an 8 amp charger to prevent 12 v cycling.
 
Yeah, on this thread, #86, scottm says he's hooked up a 12V charger. He says it's drawing 20W from the wall.
I don't doubt this is better, but it's not for everyone, needs you to plug in 2 things each night, you need to buy a charger, and make a mod to the car.
 
There might be a downside of 1A chargeport charging, coolant pumps could be running a lot to needlessly cool the onboard charger/s ... unless that is thermostatically controlled by BMS.

The Tesla's main battery is not connected to the 12V battery when the car is turned off. It only connects to the 12V battery when the charge is around 70% to charge it back up. Putting an external charger on the 12V battery would keep the main battery from charging the 12V battery so the coolant pumps would never turn on.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: wesley888
You are right, the key word is cycling. We want to keep the 12v from cycling, so using the chargeport to trickle charge 1A may be enough to keep the HV battery from depleting over time BUT it will still be cycling the 12v.

The only way to keep cycling from happening is to keep the 12v above the trigger level of needing a Dc-2-DC recharge from the HV. Keeping an external fairly low power maintenance / minder type trickle charger directly on the 12v is the only way to go.

Which is what I'm doing nowadays... so, charge on!
 
  • Like
Reactions: wesley888
There might be a downside of 1A chargeport charging, coolant pumps could be running a lot to needlessly cool the onboard charger/s ... unless that is thermostatically controlled by BMS.
I think J1772 is only defined down to 6A pilot. I don't know if Tesla allows less or the center screen will allow you to adjust it lower than that. The battery and charger coolant pumps run more or less continuously while charging is active, so that adds waste to the electricity consumption and adds wear and tear on the pump(s). Generally, a dedicated 12V charger would be better if your goal is to prolong the 12V battery life. Trading off coolant pump life doesn't seem like a good choice.
 
Several people on this thread use a CTEK charger to trickle-charge the 12v battery. However that seems to be for standard lead-acid batteries (from the picture on Amazon), not the AGM type. The BatterMinder that was recommended earlier in the thread does however have separate settings for AGM, Flooded and Gel, which presumably have slightly different float voltages. Does this matter much?
 
Several people on this thread use a CTEK charger to trickle-charge the 12v battery. However that seems to be for standard lead-acid batteries (from the picture on Amazon), not the AGM type. The BatterMinder that was recommended earlier in the thread does however have separate settings for AGM, Flooded and Gel, which presumably have slightly different float voltages. Does this matter much?

Cancel that - the current version of the CTEK charger certainly does have an AGM mode:

http://www.ctek.com/Archive/ProductPdf/MXS 5.0_EN.pdf
 
It seems that vampire drain is now so low that there is no need for a charger. As I have reported in other threads:

I just got back from vacation. I normally leave the care plugged in but as an experiment, I did not.

Over a period of a bit over 17 days, I lost 16 miles.

This, is on a 2016 refresh with energy savings on but always connected also on.

One complication is that while I was on vacation, I got a notice that an update was ready to be installed. That download might have used a bit more energy than the normal sleep.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: navguy12