Anyone else SOLELY relying on supercharging?

[darth_vad3r]

Oh good grief, about time. And it's a miracle that Apple is implementing something helpful before Android for once.
Our company is moving toward laptops with docking stations, and I cringe at how horrific that is, that these laptops are going to just sit there on their docking stations for the vast majority of the day every day at 100% full, devouring the useful life of all those batteries.

My daughter had a small netbook from Samsung many years ago that had a battery life saver feature that you could turn on to limit it to 80%, but I've never seen that on any other phone or laptop since.

Ya since doing all this learning about batteries via the car, I’ve changed charging habits on devices and if I notice something in the 90s I’ll unplug it and bemoan the lack of a charge target slider like the Tesla has

 

[drupe14]

It is true that for optimal battery life you should charge between 20-80%. It's also true that very fast charging can harm lithion ion batteries - however, both in iphones and in Tesla batteries, the last 20% of charging is slowed down for this reason - to preserve the battery life.

I've had my TM3 sine October 2018 and have strictly used the supercharging networks. I have no battery degradation at the moment and I never charge to 100%.

The reason I cannot charge at home is because i'm currently renting and a live in the city.

(occasionally, i will charge for free at Whole Foods).

 

[Kenz]

Even if you are renting you should make an effort to charge where your vehicle is parked most of the time.
For most people this is at home or work. Talking to your landlord or employer about the benefits of installing a EV charger will help to expand charging options. Keeping the battery between 20 - 80% is good. Slow charging is also better than fast charging.

 

[drupe14]

@Kenz - trust me, if I could I would. And when I buy a home, I will certainly have a home charging network. For now Whole Foods and the SC network does me well.

 

[forkee]

the concept of "free" and "unlimited" will always reign superior to anything, especially convenience. people will go to great lengths to take advantage of products or services that are perceived to have any amount of value. the downside of that is waste. i can't recall how many times we just throw away unused taco bell sauce packets or carelessly stuff napkins all over our car. hell, i'm a klepto when it comes to hotel soap.

using the supply and demand theory, since demand is high, supply will be low. this is where all the haters come out. let's face it, the people complaining about others supercharging (when they can just charge at home) are those that HAVE to pay for it. nobody with free supercharging gives two $hits about a crowded supercharger. so what if the supercharger is crowded. too bad for you, you have to wait. unless there is a car blocking a cable or a car plugged in but at 100%, stop complaining and wait like everybody else. you don't get priority because you're just passing through on vacation, and you sure don't get the right to chastise anyone who wants to charge to whatever percentage you don't agree with. they got there first, they get to charge. busy superchargers need to be factored in your trip. think about the supermarket checkout for example. some people buy 3 things, some buy 30. You don't complain about why they buy so many things. It's going to take longer but you wait, and hop into the next lane over if it is faster.

regarding unlimited supercharging, there's no arguing how valuable it is. just like other features such as autopilot, smart air suspension, ludicrous, etc., it is a feature that will make or break someone's decision to buy.

The wife and I both drive an X with unlimited supercharging. She solely uses the SC network because work has her driving around 80-90 miles/day and she passes through at least 5 different superchargers. Not only is it convenient for her but it's free. She gets work charting done at the same time while charging for about 50 minutes. We have a 14-50 at home, so I use that because my commute is only 3 miles/day and i like topping off every night. some weeks i let it drain down to 20% and on the weekend we will bring the twins (call 'em dos equis) and charge together.

I personally wouldn’t buy it’s a personal choice.

If you are a car owner that will trade cars every few years, I say f-it supercharge if it’s convenient to you. Battery health isn’t a concern if you are gonna trade or sell in 2-3 yrs. but long term ownership I would be mindful of supercharging.

I feel like this is what the previous owner did to my P90DL, as it's range is shot (only 222 mi @ 100%) Since it's already bad, no reason to baby it and frequently charge to 90% at home or 95% at a supercharger (wasting another hour just for that extra 5% is just not worth it for me). The 95% allows me to toggle on L+ mode and have some fun going home (it usually gets to about 90% anyways by the time i travel the 4 miles it takes, lol)

in the end, it is all personal decisions and whether or not we place value to those things. people will place unlimited supercharging on different tiers of their priorities, but no one is "right" or "wrong". what's wrong is attacking someone's personal decision to choose their Tesla.

 

[darth_vad3r]

think about the supermarket checkout for example. some people buy 3 things, some buy 30. You don't complain about why they buy so many things. It's going to take longer but you wait, and hop into the next lane over if it is faster.

Great analogy. The supercharger is the “10 items or less lane”. The urban supercharger is the normal lane.

People have a right to complain if you try to take 30 items into the 10 items or less lane.

 

[Snow Drift]

We did from September to December 2018 since we couldn't charge at home/work. Now we have access to a 120V outlet at our apartment. Haven't been back since.

 

[Kenz]

Every Tesla owner should encourage their place of employment to install level 2 chargers in the parking lot for employees and visitors.
Just asking plants a seed. If you live in an apartment or condo become friends with the head of the association. Take them for a ride and show them the future.

 

[Big Earl]

If you can't charge anywhere else besides superchargers, then you shouldn't drive a Tesla.

No, sir. The fewer fossil-fueled vehicles, the better, even if that means installing more charging stations.

 

[Rottenapplr]

Every Tesla owner should encourage their place of employment to install level 2 chargers in the parking lot for employees and visitors.
Just asking plants a seed. If you live in an apartment or condo become friends with the head of the association. Take them for a ride and show them the future.

Lol we had a all staff meeting. Someone ask this question. The director said, “we will see”.

Aka

“no”

 

[Janus]

In my apartment building, they have 8 ChargePoint stations. They charge at 6KW, with $2/hour for first 4 hours, then $5/hour after. Faster, cheaper, and less hassle to just use a nearby SuperCharger. If my building charged based on KWh (or a flat monthly fee), and didn't have the time-based price-jump, I might revisit. Once I buy a house, I'll install a HPWC.

 

[hoang51]

Thanks for your data point experience. I'm not interested in trying to charge up to 100% SOC and then discharge it all the way down low. I'm not too worried why I lost 9 miles. I've been recently going from about 10-20% <-> mostly 90% SOC.

Its only one other data point, but I have 8k Miles in my Model 3P with performance upgrade package, and have only supercharged 3 times, all within 1st 9 days of ownership waiting for electrician to connect my HPWC. My 90% SOC (which I charge to every day) is still 279.

Like I said, only 2 data points, so meaningless statistically, unless you want to look at our very similar mileage and start to think about why you have lost 9 miles more than I have for almost exactly the same amount of miles.

You might want to try re balancing your battery by charging up to 100% and draining down to 30%, that is, if you care about those lost miles, to see if they are really lost, or just reported as lost by your cars battery system and can be regained by rebalancing.

 

[hoang51]

How and when did you get your SC gifted? We got our M3D in November 2018.

By being an early adopter of when the Performance was available to order first thing from Tesla. Got my car in August 2018.

 

[K3vin11]

I took delivery of my M3P with unlimited supercharging last October and has been mostly using the Supercharger and Urban Superchargers around Dallas, TX for the last 18K miles.

I’ve noticed that there is a drop in estimated range during the first 12K miles of Supercharging and has currently stabilize around 295 miles per charge using the Stats App to automatically log the data.

I do floor my car at almost every green light I get and already need to get new tires at 18K but I’ll say it’s with the smiley on my face every time!

Also in the 10 months of Unlimited Supercharging the Stats app estimated that I’ve used about $1,000 worth of charging. So 4K more to go until I break even.

 

[TimothyHW3]

It is true that for optimal battery life you should charge between 20-80%. It's also true that very fast charging can harm lithion ion batteries - however, both in iphones and in Tesla batteries, the last 20% of charging is slowed down for this reason - to preserve the battery life.

I've had my TM3 sine October 2018 and have strictly used the supercharging networks. I have no battery degradation at the moment and I never charge to 100%.

I find it hard to believe,i not impossible, that your battery has no degradation whatsover. Most M3 experience 3% degradation after the first 15000 miles, which is normal. Especially if you never or rarely charge to 100% you can't know. Two ways to check: charge to 100% and see what rated miles say(not accurate, but close). Or run down the battery from 100-10% in a single go with somewhat steady speed to avoid heat loss and check the consumed kWh. But doing the first method should be enough - I estimate at least 3-5% degradation

295 miles after Supercharger

This really puts OPs thesis that Suc is not affecting the degradation to a test. That is 5% degradation after only 15,000 miles. This is the experience of others too. Slow charging is better, I yaw an X with 1% degradation after 50,000 miles and he was charging at 3.7kW.
And to those who say they have battery warranty - check your paperwork. Only below 75-70% will Tesla grant your warranty and before that happens they will be sure to limit your Suc speed like the S. And if we think of the environment, we should try and extend the battery life of our cars as long as possible. Supercharging will not help.

 

[jjrandorin]

I find it hard to believe,i not impossible, that your battery has no degradation whatsover. Most M3 experience 3% degradation after the first 15000 miles, which is normal. Especially if you never or rarely charge to 100% you can't know. Two ways to check: charge to 100% and see what rated miles say(not accurate, but close). Or run down the battery from 100-10% in a single go with somewhat steady speed to avoid heat loss and check the consumed kWh. But doing the first method should be enough - I estimate at least 3-5% degradation



This really puts OPs thesis that Suc is not affecting the degradation to a test. That is 5% degradation after only 15,000 miles. This is the experience of others too. Slow charging is better, I yaw an X with 1% degradation after 50,000 miles and he was charging at 3.7kW.
And to those who say they have battery warranty - check your paperwork. Only below 75-70% will Tesla grant your warranty and before that happens they will be sure to limit your Suc speed like the S. And if we think of the environment, we should try and extend the battery life of our cars as long as possible. Supercharging will not help.

I have just under 12k miles and zero APPARENT degradation with basically no supercharging. My rated miles at 100% charge were 306 when I bought the car, and the last time I charged to 100% (about 1.5 weeks ago), my rated range is 309. I charge to 90% every time my car hits my garage from a tesla HWPC, and drive 80-90 miles per day round trip to work and back.

 

[TimothyHW3]

This doesn't tell you anything. The BMS might have been screwed up when you took delivery. Also, if you have RWD they increased the range to 325 with an update I believe so technically you have 15 miles degradation according to your numbers. Wether this is apparent or not is another question. The only way you can measure degradation like that is to stay on one sw update both times you measure. But like I said, if you have RWD and even AWD or P, they changed the calculation a coule of times the last 6 months.

Only proper way of testing degradation is to discharge from 100 to about 5-10% at steady speed at a steady road (flat surface) on a same day and see how much kWh you spent and calculate from 74.2kWh at delivery. But nobody does that.

 

[jjrandorin]

This doesn't tell you anything. The BMS might have been screwed up when you took delivery. Also, if you have RWD they increased the range to 325 with an update I believe so technically you have 15 miles degradation according to your numbers. Wether this is apparent or not is another question. The only way you can measure degradation like that is to stay on one sw update both times you measure. But like I said, if you have RWD and even AWD or P, they changed the calculation a coule of times the last 6 months.

Only proper way of testing degradation is to discharge from 100 to about 5-10% at steady speed at a steady road (flat surface) on a same day and see how much kWh you spent and calculate from 74.2kWh at delivery. But nobody does that.

No I dont have RWD I have a model 3 P which is supposed to be 310 miles, and was 306 on delivery so yeah "messed up" by 4 miles. I am "measuring" it the way most people in this thread are "measuring it", by talking about rated range which actually is the BMS. Lots of people go through all these charging hoops, charging to 72% then discharging to 48% (exaggerating here but still, lots of "advice" about charging to discharging from or to a specific percentage). many others are saying its "normal" to have rated range drop 5% in the first X miles, and I am saying "mine has not".