Anyone LR AWDs Showing 322 Miles Fully Charged?

[TimothyHW3]

Stats uses the temperature dependent SOC, so part of the Rated Range degradation could be real deg, some could be BMS drift, and some is temperature in Winter and the shoulder months.

Out of all these Apps, Stats and TeslaFi are the most innacurate in reporting anything. Apps that connect to Scan My Tesla are more correct, but I know at least one, where the developer doesn't really understand how the rated range works, so his app, even though connected to SMT, reports false data, because he adds custom calculations.

So the only real way to test these things is to drive 100-near 0% and see how much kWh you get out of it. I have done this on two occasions, one on camera, and the values corresponded to SMT within 0.5kWh.

Also, like I pointed many times, BMS unbalance or real degradation - result is the same, less range.

I have a video of a guy that has a pretty big degradataion (BMS unbalance, whatever), that only gives him about 67-68kWh from 100 to 0% or about 70-71kWh nominal full. So if the BMS thinks you have 70kWh or whatever - even if the battery has more, it doesn't matter.

But this is really the only guy with so bad degradataion I have seen out of the dozens and dozens I have checked and he basicaly Supercharges all the time, because of referrals, drives very fast everywehre in Europe and even up north in the polar circle, and does a lot of 0-100%. He actually did, twice, go all the way down below 0% to true 0, even using the buffer until the car didn't move and needed to be towed and as far as I see his Model 3 is roughly at 60-70,000km at 18 months of ownership.

So if a guy that basically beats the car down as humanly possible can manage as much degradation after 2x or more the mileage, with a guy who I am pretty sure basically baby sits the car and most likely doesn't supercharge that much and is only at 17k miles, then this is def not normal.

Bjorn Nyland also did a Degradataion Test and is at 72.6kWh at 60,000km with his P and he also supercharges like crazy (65% or more)

So yeah, so huge of a degradation some are reporting is def not normal at 15/17,000 miles. I wouldn't be ok with it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I wouldn't be ok with it.

That’s weird, because your car (coincidentally) is behaving very similarly to mine. You have the same rated miles as I had when my vehicle was your age.

Right now you’re looking at 5% capacity loss or thereabouts, and it’s quite reasonable to think that in another 8-10 months you’ll have 7-9% capacity loss, just like me. I hope of course your battery plateaus where it is, but I hoped the same for mine when it held reasonably steady for 6-8 months, with very little use.

If I had to place a bet, I would bet that your vehicle will have capacity below 72kWh in April of next year. Just like mine. That would mean a rate of capacity loss about half of what you’ve seen up until this point which seems pretty reasonable. And my guess is you’ll be ok with that 72kWh.

Check in again in April of next year, or earlier if it works out that way.

 

[Leemort]

My Oct 2018 build AWD only charges to 295 @100%.

Not on here often. Currently looking to find out if anyone else is having problems with the latest update and phone connectivity. But, I wanted to say, I have a Sep 2018 build and I too am seeing my full charge now to be 295 mi. If it doesn't get much lower for a while, that is not too much of an issue. However, I have 47,000+ miles

 

[ElectricMozart]

Not on here often. Currently looking to find out if anyone else is having problems with the latest update and phone connectivity. But, I wanted to say, I have a Sep 2018 build and I too am seeing my full charge now to be 295 mi. If it doesn't get much lower for a while, that is not too much of an issue. However, I have 47,000+ miles

Same build date and very similar miles on my LR AWD and my 100% is 281 miles. You're doing better than me. I'd love to be in the 290's again.

 

[israndy]

Never knew it would show you a number like that.
Sadly, my LR RWD is down to 303, from a high of 325 in a little more than a year.

Hmm.. That is where my March 2018 RWD is as well, I have 55K miles, is that where you are at? Sadly I missed seeing the 325 miles as the software update taking the car from showing 310 full to showing 325 full came out when my car was down to 310 miles full.

The good news was that I saw the car fill to 310 from new until earlier this year. Is there a thread anyone has seen where people compare their RWD cars range? I just downloaded the BatteryCompare app that claims to allow you to compare your car to others with the same mileage, but this is the output it gave:

Your car's Rated Range (279 mi) is better than 0% of users​

Perhaps when it asked for Rated Range it was actually asking for the displayed range which is 303, still, it doesn't show others data, just a curve with no data, not even a point cloud... Either way, it doesn't look good for me.

 

[israndy]

Cooler visualization than the one above, this from TezLab app:

not that I know what it means either. Shows much better remaining capacity

 

[TimothyHW3]

That’s weird, because your car (coincidentally) is behaving very similarly to mine. You have the same rated miles as I had when my vehicle was your age.

Right now you’re looking at 5% capacity loss or thereabouts, and it’s quite reasonable to think that in another 8-10 months you’ll have 7-9% capacity

?!? I was at 75.3-75.7 You probably was at that at the beginning...
I am now at 75kWh, just charged the other day. At 32,000km. You are at 71-72 you say?! How is that even remotely the same will remain your mystery.

And no, even if I do another 20,000 miles for the other 8 months I will not be even remotely close to your 71-72. The least I will be is 73.5 probably 74
But that will ve on a car that has 4x more cycles than yours. And cycles is really what matters here, age not so much. Try keeping a battery with 50 cycles for 2 years and one you had 600 cycles in 6 months, I can guarantee you that the 6 months old one will be at least 20% lower than yours.

Here is another reviewer for you who just charged to 100% at 313miles RWD at46,000 miles(not km). Over 2 years old
That is roughly about 74-74.5kWh nominal full, exactly as my prediction based on tons of other Model 3 data

Keep telling yourself that you are ok and that your values are normal though...It is not, you are an exception...

 

[uujjj2]

November 2018 LR RWD, 30k miles, 100% is at 293mi. Looks like we are on the lower end of the curve, but not an outlier

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

November 2018 LR RWD, 30k miles, 100% is at 293mi. Looks like we are on the lower end of the curve, but not an outlier

Yeah, they don't make those batteries like they used to.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Keep telling yourself that you are ok and that your values are normal though...It is not, you are an exception...

I'm pretty sure it's normal. I have a bunch of reports from multiple people (both here, and people I know personally!) on my side!

I am now at 75kWh, just charged the other day. At 32,000km. You are at 71-72 you say?! How is that even remotely the same will remain your mystery.

Sounds like my car. Your car was at 74.5kWh (you said so yourself). That would be 304 rated miles. That's what mine was close to for a very long time.

I live in a warm climate and always charge to 80-90%, and the car charges in a warm environment. So Stats' numbers are reasonably accurate. You can see I was around 74kWh (302 rated miles) for a good long time, from 9000 miles to 16k miles (the small lowering around 13.5k probably was due to the "winter" chilliness). So that seems pretty similar to your car, for its age.

Now I've dropped to 290 miles (ignore the lower numbers, as there is noise on the Stats data) - the app and Stats predict 290 and I charged to 100% recently and that's what I got. That's 71kWh.

This is just normal behavior. Periodically the CAC gets recalculated and the BMS decides it's time to lower the estimate of energy available. It's not a big deal. I wouldn't be surprised if I see a recovery to 72kWh, but I drove down to around 30% recently and that made no difference. We'll see what happens on the next road trip but I don't expect any major change.

Check in in another 8-9 months and let us know how you're doing. I predict you'll be below 72.5kWh. It'll likely be a rather sudden adjustment, and of course it varies a bit, but it's all perfectly within the bounds of the typical distribution. Seems to me your battery is likely right about average, possibly slightly below average - perhaps 1 standard deviation better than mine. But I need to dig through your links at some point and generate distributions if I can. Or you can look at Stats' distributions (but that has major issues as people have pointed out). Would be nice if SMT collected data if user allowed it, and tabulated it for us.

 

[uujjj2]

From the graphs, it looks like we can expect range to level off somewhere between 300 and 280 as the car reaches middle age. So the 322 mi rating of a new Model 3 is more like a 280 mi rating for a mid-life Model 3.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

From the graphs, it looks like we can expect range to level off somewhere between 300 and 280 as the car reaches middle age. So the 322 mi rating of a new Model 3 is more like a 280 mi rating for a mid-life Model 3.

Well...have to be a little careful when comparing a vehicle with a different constant. That 322 is with a 241Wh/rmi constant.

I think (no idea, no evidence - need SMT data and rmi data from a *brand new* car above 322 rated miles to verify) that they hide less of the initial degradation now than they did before, though. So that cuts the other way.

But after degradation kicks in, just scale the 2018/2019 results up by ratio of 245/241 to get the “expected” rated miles for 2020 models with 18” selected. That assumes no battery chemistry changes of course, which I think is unlikely. I am sure they are always making iterative improvements, which (hopefully) will positively impact longevity (they won’t necessarily - there are a lot of objectives).

So that 280-rated-mile 2018 Model 3 (which I think is on the lower end of the distribution) would scale to 285 rated miles in a 2020 Model 3 with same remaining capacity.

 

[IronCoffee_Max]

June 24 delivered LR AWD - 320 at 100%

 

[Grump99]

Just wanted to chime in here. We have a 2019 stealth performance (AWD). Started at 310 miles range new. We charge to 90% daily. Occasionally discharge below 30%, but usually not. Supercharged only a handful of times.

Our max range dropped pretty quickly, down to about 295 miles at around 7-8000 miles. This seemed to correlate with the October software update, but could be my imagination. Right now, sitting at 17,000 miles. Full charge is currently varying between 288-293. So about 5.5-7% range loss so far. I'm hoping we will settle in around 285-290 in the long term.

Would appreciate any opinions on how our battery is doing. Seems to fall in line with some others have posted here.

Thanks

 

[uujjj2]

If you buy an EV, for the majority of the life of your car your rated range will be 85-90% of its brand new rated range. That's just how it is with the current generation of battery tech, not just for Tesla.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So about 5.5-7% range loss so far. I'm hoping we will settle in around 285-290 in the long term.

Yep. I guess we've gotten off topic for this thread which is for 2020 Model 3s. But anyway, this is a typical result (likely somewhat on the low side, but also quite normal). Your actual capacity loss is likely closer to 9%. 290 rated miles (rmi) is 71kWh for a 2019 Model 3 (245Wh/rmi), and you likely started with close to 78kWh (if it took several months to see the rated range drop below 310 rated miles, you almost certainly started with close to 78kWh - 310 rated miles is 76kWh so the rated miles probably are a bit swole before the capacity loss shows (again, to be clear, still no concrete evidence of this - we need detailed SMT data from a brand new Model 3 and track the SMT and displayed rated miles from brand new (322 rated miles) to when degradation starts showing to be able to say this for sure) ).

Since you said your range dropped quite quickly, it's entirely possible your battery started with capacity closer to 76kWh rather than the 78-79kWh that some owners start with - of course there is some variability in battery capacity. We'll never know, of course - we don't have data from your car specifically. Again, the only way to know this is to purchase SMT immediately (before car purchase) and track from day 1. If you started close to 76kWh your % capacity loss will be closer to the 5-6% you state, though obviously it's a bit of an academic point - since you've lost 9% capacity relative to what some other people started with. The point, of course, is that lower initial capacity batteries will likely show lower miles at a similar age, simply due to the lower starting point. It's probably true in general that the capacity scales with age/miles as a % of the initial capacity. It's not likely that you get any benefit and sustain less degradation if you start with a lower capacity. Again, something that can only be determined with detailed study and data. Obviously Tesla knows exactly how it works but they're not going to be sharing!

Relevant to this thread: Note that 2020 Model 3s, since they start with over 77.6kWh nominal capacity (322 rmi @ 241Wh/rmi), suffer much less from this start point phenomenon. It's possible that Tesla has better (tighter) process control over initial capacity than they did for 2018/2019. I'm sure there's still some initial variability (as a random arbitrary example, 77.6kWh-79.5kWh might be their internal target) - but again, it's only something we could ascertain with data from SMT on several *brand new* vehicles.

If you buy an EV, for the majority of the life of your car your rated range will be 85-90% of its brand new rated range. That's just how it is with the current generation of battery tech, not just for Tesla.

Agreed. I'm not aware of any manufacturer that does not experience this type of capacity loss over the first few years. Of course, some manufacturers have various tricks to HIDE this capacity loss (for example, sounds like Hyundai may have a hidden buffer they access), but I don't think there is any big difference in different manufacturers at the moment.

It's not that big a deal. If you're on the lucky side, you might end up with a battery with over 92% of its initial capacity. But your range seems like a decent thing to PLAN for for an EV owner. It's not a big deal - as long as you plan for it. Not planning for it is a far worse prospect - and it is very harmful for EV ownership & adoption to not talk about the facts. People need to know that this happens, and they need to know that it is no big deal.

 

[mmurphy]

So I was just chatting with Tesla service because my 2020 model LR AWD shows 303 miles at 100%. I have just over 9K miles on the car. when the software update came out to change to 322 miles. Mine changed to 321 miles and has gradually gone down and about 2 software updates ago I went from 314 miles to 306 at 100%. Tesla service is saying since my car was produced at the end of Oct. 2019 I didn't get the new battery that technically has 322 miles. So my software had a glitch on it because Nov 2019 is when they started to produce that battery. Has anyone ever heard of this?

 

[XLR82XS]

So I was just chatting with Tesla service because my 2020 model LR AWD shows 303 miles at 100%. I have just over 9K miles on the car. when the software update came out to change to 322 miles. Mine changed to 321 miles and has gradually gone down and about 2 software updates ago I went from 314 miles to 306 at 100%. Tesla service is saying since my car was produced at the end of Oct. 2019 I didn't get the new battery that technically has 322 miles. So my software had a glitch on it because Nov 2019 is when they started to produce that battery. Has anyone ever heard of this?

I have not heard this and my 2020 was also produced in October 2019. I showed 320-322 range @ 100% until the last 2 updates.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So I was just chatting with Tesla service because my 2020 model LR AWD shows 303 miles at 100%. I have just over 9K miles on the car. when the software update came out to change to 322 miles. Mine changed to 321 miles and has gradually gone down and about 2 software updates ago I went from 314 miles to 306 at 100%. Tesla service is saying since my car was produced at the end of Oct. 2019 I didn't get the new battery that technically has 322 miles. So my software had a glitch on it because Nov 2019 is when they started to produce that battery. Has anyone ever heard of this?

This is false, since your vehicle showed 321 rated miles after the update to the constant. If you have a 2020, you have the altered constant (the battery is nominally the same capacity, it's just the constant that changes - the battery is likely always changing, so there's really no such thing as "the" new battery). Generally not a great idea to listen to Tesla service on this stuff. I don't track it much anymore so going forward no idea whether constants will change, but the past is basically set in stone.

241 Wh/rmi18 or so for your 2020 vehicle. Multiply your rated miles at 100% (not extrapolated) by that constant to give you your maximum battery capacity in Wh.

Very simple. You're down to about 73kWh (assuming that was 303 at 100% truly 100%), down from your original capacity of 77.6kWh+ (could have been as high as 78-79kWh).

No big deal. Your loss of capacity is slightly on the high side (probably worse than 80% of people with a vehicle this age, just a WAG), but it's totally normal. Completely expected, typical, well within the normal distribution of results - remember that about half the owners have to be below average (certainly half have to be below the median!) on battery capacity! Nothing to worry about.

One thing to check is to make sure you have 18" wheels selected. If for some reason you have other wheels selected you'd see a lower # of rated miles. But at 303 rated miles, it's extremely unlikely that you have anything other than 18" selected (only 19" is possible, since that starts at about 304 for a brand new battery - 20" would automatically start at 299 or below). That just changes the constant, of course - doesn't change your range or your battery capacity. The rated miles with different wheel selections are just numbers representing your same capacity in different units. Super simple straightforward stuff.

 

[mmurphy]

This is false, since your vehicle showed 321 rated miles after the update to the constant. If you have a 2020, you have the altered constant (the battery is nominally the same capacity, it's just the constant that changes - the battery is likely always changing, so there's really no such thing as "the" new battery). Generally not a great idea to listen to Tesla service on this stuff. I don't track it much anymore so going forward no idea whether constants will change, but the past is basically set in stone.

241 Wh/rmi18 or so for your 2020 vehicle. Multiply your rated miles at 100% (not extrapolated) by that constant to give you your maximum battery capacity in Wh.

Very simple. You're down to about 73kWh (assuming that was 303 at 100% truly 100%), down from your original capacity of 77.6kWh+ (could have been as high as 78-79kWh).

No big deal. Your loss of capacity is slightly on the high side (probably worse than 80% of people with a vehicle this age, just a WAG), but it's totally normal. Completely expected, typical, well within the normal distribution of results - remember that about half the owners have to be below average (certainly half have to be below the median!) on battery capacity! Nothing to worry about.

One thing to check is to make sure you have 18" wheels selected. If for some reason you have other wheels selected you'd see a lower # of rated miles. But at 303 rated miles, it's extremely unlikely that you have anything other than 18" selected (only 19" is possible, since that starts at about 304 for a brand new battery - 20" would automatically start at 299 or below). That just changes the constant, of course - doesn't change your range or your battery capacity. The rated miles with different wheel selections are just numbers representing your same capacity in different units. Super simple straightforward stuff.

Excellent explanation! Thank you. I wasn't too concerned but decided to check with Tesla service where they did a remote battery check. When they told me I didn't have the new battery I was confused. I do have the 18" selected. Thanks again