Anything better then pilot sport 4s tires?

[HankLloydRight]

. It's MUCH closer to 1.5x more than 2x more.

Still, why pay that much more for a tire that doesn't really give you any better performance?
Like I said, the price difference is the marketing. If you're happy wasting your cash on that, go do you.

Why do you even mention in stock? It seems as you are throwing in random things just to support your argument.

It's not random, it shows right there on Tirerack the PS4S are not in stock.

ALL that being said, you are quoting the wrong tire, wrong size. It's a 235/35/20 tire not a 245/35/21. They aren't 21s. LOL

I don't know the M3 sizes, so I just compared the 21" sizes for Model S. Different tire sizes don't really change the relative prices between the two brands for the same size tire. 1.6 times more expensive is the same 1.6 times more expensive regardless of the size.

Look, I'm not here to start WW3 over freaking tires. The OP asked for tire recommendations, and the Hankook tires are a fantastic and affordable (and currently OEM) tires for Model 3. If you've got cash to burn on a brand name, that's fine, it's your money. But most people are cost conscious when buying tires, and the Hankooks offer nearly the same performance for A LOT less cash.

 

[drpheta]

Still, why pay that much more for a tire that doesn't really give you any better performance?
Like I said, the price difference is the marketing. If you're happy wasting your cash on that, go do you.



It's not random, it shows right there on Tirerack the PS4S are not in stock.



I don't know the M3 sizes, so I just compared the 21" sizes for Model S. Different tire sizes don't really change the relative prices between the two brands for the same size tire. 1.6 times more expensive is the same 1.6 times more expensive regardless of the size.

Look, I'm not here to start WW3 over freaking tires. The OP asked for tire recommendations, and the Hankook tires are a fantastic and affordable (and currently OEM) tires for Model 3. If you've got cash to burn on a brand name, that's fine, it's your money. But most people are cost conscious when buying tires, and the Hankooks offer nearly the same performance for A LOT less cash.

It's not marketing. The results speak for themselves. Also, PS4S are in stock, as I've had tires installed at my local tire shop w/o issue. They had stock in 245/35/20, 245/40/19, and my size 275/35/19.

Hankook tires may be good enough for you, but OP asked if anything is better than PS4S or are they the best tires available. In that category, nothing surpasses them and others may come close. Hankooks may come close, but as far as 300 treadwear tires they're not as good as PS4S.

 

[Knightshade]

Still, why pay that much more for a tire that doesn't really give you any better performance?

Except it does give you better performance. Objectively and measurably.

Your entire argument is based on a false premise.

You can certainly have a DIFFERENT argument on if it's ENOUGH better performance to justify the cost of course.

I don't know the M3 sizes

Then why are you even in the Model 3 tire forum?

Look, I'm not here to start WW3 over freaking tires. The OP asked for tire recommendations

Not quite-- The OP asked if there was something better than the PS4s

The Hankooks are not better.

They ARE cheaper, but that wasn't the question.

 

[SFLM3P19]

having run the Hankook RS4s and Goodyear eagle f1 and MPS4S in 265s....

yes, they really are the best tire for a road car.

no warming necessary for grip,
2-3Xs the safe mileage if driving in the rain(south florida daily)
4-5Xs the mileage of 200treadwears with better grip all around(not on track)

 

[Zcd1]

Personally I do not like Michelin tires and will never buy them again... you're mostly paying for marketing and not tire. They are very expensive and not really any better than other performance tires brands out there. To that end, I'm a big fan of the Hankook Ventus V12 summer performance tires and have had them on all my Teslas and BMWs, and they're about half the cost of the Michelins with similar, or better, performance.

I'm glad the Hankooks work for your purposes, but to suggest that they're "better than" or even close to "equal to" PS4S or other top-tier tires flies in the face of all empirical evidence:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=MP

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=190

I ran the Hankooks between sets of PS3s and PS4s and in actual performance the Hankooks aren't a patch on either Michelin.

 

[dsgerbc]

Except it does give you better performance. Objectively and measurably.

Proof link?

I used to think that Michelin products were grossly overpriced, and it might've been true before. The Michelin PSS/PS4S are generally quite worth it. Their grip is a tad off good 200 treadwear-rated tires, but they last much longer. Neither PS4S nor Hankooks are track day tires. When pushed hard on a heavy car, both will get greasy and ruined. I frequently do tech at local autocrosses. 've not seen anyone on v12 hankooks autocrossing lately. I've seen plenty on PS4Ss. The latter has excellent/consistent cold and/or wet grip.

 

[jackmott]

You objectively can't though based on calibrated testing by numerous sources.

You can certainly get cheaper tires. You can't get cheaper equally performing ones though.

Some folks will feel X cheaper for Y less performance/safety/warranty/etc is a worthwhile trade- that's going to be up to the individual. But it's definitely a trade-off in both directions.

If you think like an autocrosser/racer then you can't get an equally performing tire for less. If you think like a regular person there are a whole bunch of tires close enough for normal use that most people wouldn't notice the difference.

 

[Not That M3]

Still, why pay that much more for a tire that doesn't really give you any better performance?
Like I said, the price difference is the marketing. If you're happy wasting your cash on that, go do you.



It's not random, it shows right there on Tirerack the PS4S are not in stock.



I don't know the M3 sizes, so I just compared the 21" sizes for Model S. Different tire sizes don't really change the relative prices between the two brands for the same size tire. 1.6 times more expensive is the same 1.6 times more expensive regardless of the size.

Look, I'm not here to start WW3 over freaking tires. The OP asked for tire recommendations, and the Hankook tires are a fantastic and affordable (and currently OEM) tires for Model 3. If you've got cash to burn on a brand name, that's fine, it's your money. But most people are cost conscious when buying tires, and the Hankooks offer nearly the same performance for A LOT less cash.

Last time I checked, Tirerack isn't the only supplier of tires. We are talking about Model 3 tires here, so if you are stating something isn't in stock, while quoting the wrong tire, then it's random data and not pertinent to the discussion at all.

You are all over the place, doesn't give you any better performance or nearly the same? Dry or wet? It's not all the same.

 

[Knightshade]

Proof link?

Than that Michelins are objectively better than the Hankooks?

Already posted, several times, including the post directly above your question.

But sure- here's another

2017 Car and Driver UHP Tire Test - Tire reviews and ratings

There's one more summer tire test left to cover in 2017, and this time it's the American publication Car and Driver testing five 245/40 R18 maximum performance summer tires using a BMW 430i.

www.tire-reviews.com

If you think like an autocrosser/racer then you can't get an equally performing tire for less. If you think like a regular person there are a whole bunch of tires close enough for normal use that most people wouldn't notice the difference.

People often think better tires only matter on the track.

They usually think that right until they have to do an emergency stop somewhere other than the track, and find better tires make a difference between stopping a foot or two (or 5) before the car in front of you and stopping because you hit said car.

But sure, if you always keep a bunch of car lengths between you and the next guy, never have anyone cut in front of you, never have anything unexpectedly enter your path like an animal or pedestrian, and never drive in a spirited fashion, you'll never notice the difference.

 

[jackmott]

People often think better tires only matter on the track.

They usually think that right until they have to do an emergency stop somewhere other than the track, and find better tires make a difference between stopping a foot or two (or 5) before the car in front of you and stopping because you hit said car.

But sure, if you always keep a bunch of car lengths between you and the next guy, never have anyone cut in front of you, never have anything unexpectedly enter your path like an animal or pedestrian, and never drive in a spirited fashion, you'll never notice the difference.

Absolutely I consider that sort of thing when it comes to choosing between a PS4S and the MXM4, very big difference in braking distance, safety compromised significantly. But between the PS4S and my PS4 (No S), not a huge thing. As well the safety you give up with summer traction as you get to very aggressive tires may be traded off for worse hydroplaning resistance.

 

[omarsultan]

Highly recommend checking out Tyre Review on YT

https://www.youtube.com/c/tyrereviews

He does comprehensive tests with lots of useful info, so you can figure out what is best for you

 

[Lavender]

Need to get some new tires, anything better then pilot sport 4s?

Probably isn't anything better than the Michelin, but I like the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500, especially for the price.

 

[Big Dog]

Personally I do not like Michelin tires and will never buy them again... you're mostly paying for marketing and not tire. They are very expensive and not really any better than other performance tires brands out there. To that end, I'm a big fan of the Hankook Ventus V12 summer performance tires and have had them on all my Teslas and BMWs, and they're about half the cost of the Michelins with similar, or better, performance.

Not according to Tire Rack reviewers.

 

[drpheta]

Proof link?

I used to think that Michelin products were grossly overpriced, and it might've been true before. The Michelin PSS/PS4S are generally quite worth it. Their grip is a tad off good 200 treadwear-rated tires, but they last much longer. Neither PS4S nor Hankooks are track day tires. When pushed hard on a heavy car, both will get greasy and ruined. I frequently do tech at local autocrosses. 've not seen anyone on v12 hankooks autocrossing lately. I've seen plenty on PS4Ss. The latter has excellent/consistent cold and/or wet grip.

Exactly. PS4S can be run at the track pretty aggressively before getting greasy or shredding. I don't recall the any other 300 tire getting significant track duty anywhere as close to Michelin's edge without getting chunked quickly.

It's the go to street tire that's consistently good in most conditions, yet actually usable on road courses and autox. It objectively has the best results in controlled tests.

At this point, this Hankook dude has to be trolling.

 

[HankLloydRight]

At this point, this Hankook dude has to be trolling.

I'm definitely not trolling. Tire experience is largely subjective. I've had bad experiences with PSS on my Model Ss and only great experiences and performance with the Hankooks at (nearly) half the price. You can disagree with me all day long, but it's not going to change my experience. Notwithstanding, the Hankook is still a great summer performance tire for the price.

Not according to Tire Rack reviewers.

Tirerack reviews are largely an echo-chamber of people who like to confirm they bought the right tire (confirmation bias). They are not objective.

 

[jackmott]

I'm definitely not trolling. Tire experience is largely subjective. I've had bad experiences with PSS on my Model Ss and only great experiences and performance with the Hankooks at (nearly) half the price. You can disagree with me all day long, but it's not going to change my experience. Notwithstanding, the Hankook is still a great summer performance tire for the price.



Tirerack reviews are largely an echo-chamber of people who like to confirm they bought the right tire (confirmation bias). They are not objective.

Objective testing that includes the PS4S and the Hankook Ventus below. While the Hankook does lose here, note that the bar graphs don't start at zero. The difference is very small.

2017 Car and Driver UHP Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

There's one more summer tyre test left to cover in 2017, and this time it's the American publication Car and Driver testing five 245/40 R18 maximum performance summer tyres using a BMW 430i.

www.tyrereviews.com

 

[Knightshade]

I'm definitely not trolling. Tire experience is largely subjective.

Sure. Experience is subjective.

But tire measured performance is not

The Hankook is an objectively, measurably, inferior tire.


Humans are terrible measuring devices. There's tons of folks on here whose "experience" with the stock MXM4 is great- because they don't know any better. Doesn't mean it's not a garbage tire safety-wise compared to a slew of better ones.

The Hankook is certainly better than the MXM4, but also worse than the PS4s.


If "Only somewhat worse but cheaper" is good enough for you, more power to you. But the OPs original question of "is there anything better" than the PS4s can not be correctly answered with the answer you keep giving.

Tirerack reviews are largely an echo-chamber of people who like to confirm they bought the right tire (confirmation bias). They are not objective.

Can you explain how things like measured braking distance with calibrated devices is an "echo chamber of people" and "not objective"?

Objective testing that includes the PS4S and the Hankook Ventus below. While the Hankook does lose here, note that the bar graphs don't start at zero. The difference is very small.

2017 Car and Driver UHP Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

There's one more summer tyre test left to cover in 2017, and this time it's the American publication Car and Driver testing five 245/40 R18 maximum performance summer tyres using a BMW 430i.

www.tyrereviews.com

In wet the Michelins stop the car almost 7 feet shorter than the Hankooks.

I dunno how long you've been driving but I've seen plenty of emergency stops where if the person stopping had traveled an extra 7 feet (or in many cases an extra 2 feet) that would've been a collision (or a trip down a hill/embankment/cliff/etc).

Dunno that I'd call it "very small" personally.

 

[Sam1]

Objective testing that includes the PS4S and the Hankook Ventus below. While the Hankook does lose here, note that the bar graphs don't start at zero. The difference is very small.

2017 Car and Driver UHP Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

There's one more summer tyre test left to cover in 2017, and this time it's the American publication Car and Driver testing five 245/40 R18 maximum performance summer tyres using a BMW 430i.

www.tyrereviews.com

The problem with PS4S reviews is you don't know how much different the manufacturer spec performs than the open market one being tested. OEM-sized PS4S in t0, is much different than a standard PS4S.

Not questioning your intent there, it's just way different. One of those popular tire comparison things in the UK tested OEM BMW tires with the same size open market tire make and model etc, and the OEM tire performed better on their track.

 

[Freshness]

Hankooks are cheaper than Michelin's because of lack of marketing?

I see Hankook marketing everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

Hankook isn't some new brand that just came out, they sponsor teams, sporting events, race events and even have commercials running throughout the day.

I literally just watched this commercial on TV yesterday.

But now this person is saying they're comparing Hankooks to their dusty super sports, not even PS4S????

 

[jackmott]

I dunno how long you've been driving

I was only glancing at the dry results, please excuse me.
BUT IVE BEEN DRIVING FOR DECADES GAWWWSSSHHH