AP 2.0 on submitted orders

[Tam]

One safety aspect would be blind spot detection. When in AP will the car change lanes, when the turn signal is applied, into a passing car like it currently will, if the Enhanced isn't enabled? I'm guessing vandacca would say no, and Tam would say yes.

You are right!

Base on Tesla's history: You only get the function up to the level of what you pay for, so in the case of lane changing:

Cheaper AP1 level: Driver has to turn on the changing lane signal. Germany criticizes that this is dangerous because the car does not have long range rear/side facing sensors to detect a speeding car that's out of detector range and it would be colliding a lane changing Autopilot car because of late detection.

I believe that Tesla would comply to your request to keep AP1 function and it would downgrade the sonars to a shorter range of 5 meters or 16 feet even though they can detect upto 8 meters or 26 feet.

And of course all those cameras for blindspot detection would not be available for use at this cheaper AP1 function level.

To Tesla, it is a matter of choice:

If you want to be left alone and you don't want to be bothered with automation and you don't want Autopilot, then Tesla would base on your order request and comply: Manual driving with virtually almost all automation functions eliminated (except for 1 radar, 1 camera for Automatic Emergency Braking, and shorter range Sonars for warnings...)

Legally, it is your choice of orders that tells the jury in a court of law of what you really want.

You just can't choose on the order as Manual Driving then complain that Tesla has degraded the hardware because your customers can't hail your driverless car up!

 

[vandacca]

One safety aspect would be blind spot detection. When in AP will the car change lanes, when the turn signal is applied, into a passing car like it currently will, if the Enhanced isn't enabled? I'm guessing vandacca would say no, and Tam would say yes.

What we are talking about here is the difference between AP1.0 hardware+software (I'll call that AP1.AP1 for short) and AP2.0 hardware without Enhanced AP software (I'll call that AP2.AP1 for short).

I don't believe that it will be possible to have a strict comparison between these two set ups because the software is going to be completely different and re-written for AP2 hardware. But I do believe that even if you don't pay for Enhanced AP (E.AP), you will have something better than AP1.AP1 because it would seem silly to put effort into writing extra code to dummy down the features.

That said, with regards to blind-spot detection, I would expect AP2.AP1 to make full use of the enhanced ultrasonic sensors and I'm not sure what Tesla would do with the B-Pillar mounted cameras. If these 2 cameras are not used for E.AP, then they would obviously not be used for AP2.AP1. However, if they are used in E.AP, then I'm not sure what Tesla would do because I have no idea how the code is organized. I would hope that they would include it because this should be considered a safety feature rather than a convenience feature.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I thought I made it clear in other posts that historically, Tesla allows you to use up to the limit of what you pay for.

In what way did you make it clear? Did you give specific examples? I thought I read somewhere that the people that got AP1 hardware before the AP1 announcement, didn't have to pay the activation fee. Not sure if that's true or not. What examples do you have that would pertain to the AP1.AP2 situation?

 

[MP3Mike]

In what way did you make it clear? Did you give specific examples? I thought I read somewhere that the people that got AP1 hardware before the AP1 announcement, didn't have to pay the activation fee.

Only if they had purchased the Tech Package that AP was added to. If they hadn't paid for the Tech Package they had to pay to activate AP.

 

[Tam]

In what way did you make it clear? Did you give specific examples? I thought I read somewhere that the people that got AP1 hardware before the AP1 announcement, didn't have to pay the activation fee. Not sure if that's true or not. What examples do you have that would pertain to the AP1.AP2 situation?

My examples were not AP1/AP2 specific. They have been general practice of Tesla.

1) In the early days, some didn't pay for navigation feature then after deliver, they wanted to pay Tesla for the feature.

Owners said obviously, the GPS is already in their car. It shows up on the 17" display but you can't enter an address for navigation.

However, Tesla told them they need to trade their cars in and choose to pay for navigation at the time of a new order..

Tesla then eventually include navigation as standard feature tor all, but it's actually not "free" for those who didn't pay above because they can get it "free" but only if they pay for a new Tesla. It's just as free as a "free" glass of water in a restaurant as long as you pay for the meal!

2) Again, in the early days, you could get a nice 60 kWh battery car but only paid for 40 kWh price. Tesla purposefully downgraded the function of your battery to act as if it's a cheaper small capacity battery complete with shorter range, shorter warranty, incapable of Supercharger (although it could easily done with an instant remote action from Roadside Operator on the phone) ....

Of course, Tesla has not been as strict as in the Navigation case, because it has made remote downgrading and upgrading a perfect art and easy execution (without trading your car in.)

Current 75 kWh battery has been downgrading for those who only paid 60 kWh price and could now be easily upgrading to 75 kWh at any time.

3) Autopilot: as of 10/2014, all cars were equipped with 1 radar, 1 camera, 12 sonars but if you didn't pay for it, Tesla has downgraded the function as if your car has a conventional cruise, and all the hardware act as if they are not there except for standard safety features (Automatic Emergency Braking, collision warnings...)

It is fine to be hopeful and deny that Tesla will not downgrade its hardware but it is useful to base your hope on what Tesla has practiced in the past and what it is practicing right now.

I will be very happy for the day with the news that Tesla does not downgrade a more capable hardware such as in this specific case of AP1/AP2..

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

My examples were not AP1/AP2 specific. They have been general practice of Tesla.

1) In the early days, some didn't pay for navigation feature then after deliver, they wanted to pay Tesla for the feature.

Owners said obviously, the GPS is already in their car. It shows up on the 17" display but you can't enter an address for navigation.

However, Tesla told them they need to trade their cars in and choose to pay for navigation at the time of a new order..

Tesla then eventually include navigation as standard feature tor all, but it's actually not "free" for those who didn't pay above because they can get it "free" but only if they pay for a new Tesla. It's just as free as a "free" glass of water in a restaurant as long as you pay for the meal!

2) Again, in the early days, you could get a nice 60 kWh battery car but only paid for 40 kWh price. Tesla purposefully downgraded the function of your battery to act as if it's a cheaper small capacity battery complete with shorter range, shorter warranty, incapable of Supercharger (although it could easily done with an instant remote action from Roadside Operator on the phone) ....

Of course, Tesla has not been as strict as in the Navigation case, because it has made remote downgrading and upgrading a perfect art and easy execution (without trading your car in.)

Current 75 kWh battery has been downgrading for those who only paid 60 kWh price and could now be easily upgrading to 75 kWh at any time.

3) Autopilot: as of 10/2014, all cars were equipped with 1 radar, 1 camera, 12 sonars but if you didn't pay for it, Tesla has downgraded the function as if your car has a conventional cruise, and all the hardware act as if they are not there except for standard safety features (Automatic Emergency Braking, collision warnings...)

It is fine to be hopeful and deny that Tesla will not downgrade its hardware but it is useful to base your hope on what Tesla has practiced in the past and what it is practicing right now.

I will be very happy for the day with the news that Tesla does not downgrade a more capable hardware such as in this specific case of AP1/AP2..

There must be more to the navigation story. Sounds like there was hardware left out of the vehicle in the cars without navigation. That's pretty rude to just say "trade in your car" if in fact all they had to to do was a software unlock.

I still don't see your examples as a fair comparison to the AP1.AP2 situation. I paid for AP1. I think the features will work the same as they do with Enhanced, but the extras like changing lanes and freeways automatically with the navigation won't be enabled. I guess we will find out soon enough.

 

[Tam]

I guess we will find out soon enough.

Very fair statement and I completely agree with you on that!

 

[Sebvelez]

3) Autopilot: as of 10/2014, all cars were equipped with 1 radar, 1 camera, 12 sonars but if you didn't pay for it, Tesla has downgraded the function as if your car has a conventional cruise, and all the hardware act as if they are not there except for standard safety features (Automatic Emergency Braking, collision warnings...)

It is fine to be hopeful and deny that Tesla will not downgrade its hardware but it is useful to base your hope on what Tesla has practiced in the past and what it is practicing right now.

I will be very happy for the day with the news that Tesla does not downgrade a more capable hardware such as in this specific case of AP1/AP2..

Regarding the 10/2014 release of Autopilot, l placed a Model S order 2 weeks before the announcement, ended up paying for my original order which included tech package but no autopilot. As in this announcement the car was made with the autopilot hardware and during delivery Tesla said the would activate the software for $500. (The price difference at the time between tech package and new autopilot package). I chose not to pay. A month or two after autopilot was deployed via software update on all cars, my car was also upgraded over the air to have full functionality. I never paid for the upgrade.

Funny enough I find myself in the same situation having ordered a 90D Model X a week before AP2 announcement. VIN# 27,XXX, which will be delivered with AP2 hardware in hopefully late December.... but again I chose not to pay for the $2k forum members have said tesla is asking for. I haven't gotten an email either. I guess I'm rolling the dice that they will activate it as they did for my last one. It's funny how I was already stretching it with the 90D price and those extra $2k are just a bit much to stomach right now. Otherwise I will have to pay more money down the road to activate it.. we will see!

 

[figers]

There must be more to the navigation story. Sounds like there was hardware left out of the vehicle in the cars without navigation. That's pretty rude to just say "trade in your car" if in fact all they had to to do was a software unlock.

I still don't see your examples as a fair comparison to the AP1.AP2 situation. I paid for AP1. I think the features will work the same as they do with Enhanced, but the extras like changing lanes and freeways automatically with the navigation won't be enabled. I guess we will find out soon enough.

I'm in the same boat, end of Nov delivery with AP2.0 hardware and I had already paid for AP 1.0, not planning to upgrade yet to see what rolls out and how the reviews are between people who have AP2.0 hardware and paid for AP1 and those who have EAP.

Worse case I upgrade later... no rush...

 

[Tam]

Regarding the 10/2014 release of Autopilot, l placed a Model S order 2 weeks before the announcement, ended up paying for my original order which included tech package but no autopilot. As in this announcement the car was made with the autopilot hardware and during delivery Tesla said the would activate the software for $500. (The price difference at the time between tech package and new autopilot package). I chose not to pay. A month or two after autopilot was deployed via software update on all cars, my car was also upgraded over the air to have full functionality. I never paid for the upgrade.

Funny enough I find myself in the same situation having ordered a 90D Model X a week before AP2 announcement. VIN# 27,XXX, which will be delivered with AP2 hardware in hopefully late December.... but again I chose not to pay for the $2k forum members have said tesla is asking for. I haven't gotten an email either. I guess I'm rolling the dice that they will activate it as they did for my last one. It's funny how I was already stretching it with the 90D price and those extra $2k are just a bit much to stomach right now. Otherwise I will have to pay more money down the road to activate it.. we will see!

That's a very few happy stories of refusing to pay but still got the full function!

 

[Kam262951]

I understand that the hardware is going in starting today. My MX is slated for November production and December delivery, so I'm good in that regard.

My question has to do with whether the autopilot I paid for will be "fully loaded" or will there be additional costs to get the software enabled?

I will reach out to the DS as well, who is probably bombarded with emails. I would ideally like to pick up my MX ready to go and have all costs rolled into the monthly payment.

I did same thing. i had to cancel the order and place new order
lost 2500.00 deposit.
let me know what happen with your order.

 

[Kam262951]

I'm in the same boat, end of Nov delivery with AP2.0 hardware and I had already paid for AP 1.0, not planning to upgrade yet to see what rolls out and how the reviews are between people who have AP2.0 hardware and paid for AP1 and those who have EAP.

Worse case I upgrade later... no rush...

i think if have AP1 then you can't upgrade it
i could be wrong however you may wanna find out

 

[Tam]

...i think if have AP1 then you can't upgrade it...

I agree.

If your car has reached the assembly line for AP1 prior to 10/19/2016 announcement, Tesla would not stop the assembly line to switch out yours for AP2.

In that case you have to cancel your order, pay the penalty fee and order a new one with AP2.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

He said he has the new hardware, but hasn't upgraded to Enhanced yet. Hopefully we all know by now that Tesla will not retrofit AP2 hardware into an AP1 car.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

That's a very few happy stories of refusing to pay but still got the full function!

But it's a much more relevant story than, you don't get the use of the full 75 kWh battery when you pay for the 60 kWh software limited Tesla.

 

[figers]

i think if have AP1 then you can't upgrade it
i could be wrong however you may wanna find out

My Car hasn't been built yet, end of Nov delivery I only have the VIN so far.

Tesla already sent the email to pay another $2,500 to upgrade my X to EAP.

 

[Garlan Garner]

My Car hasn't been built yet, end of Nov delivery I only have the VIN so far.

Tesla already sent the email to pay another $2,500 to upgrade my X to EAP.

What is EAP? [solved] I know what it is now.

 

[figers]

What is EAP? [solved] I know what it is now.

Enhanced Auto Pilot (what was just announced last week): Autopilot

 

[Garlan Garner]

My Car hasn't been built yet, end of Nov delivery I only have the VIN so far.

Tesla already sent the email to pay another $2,500 to upgrade my X to EAP.

Really? It must be another MX. Elon said that to upgrade a car would be akin to a replacement of a spinal cord in a human.

I'm elated to hear that you are getting the option of an upgraded MX. That shows some heart from Tesla.

 

[Garlan Garner]

He said he has the new hardware, but hasn't upgraded to Enhanced yet. Hopefully we all know by now that Tesla will not retrofit AP2 hardware into an AP1 car.

Exactly. That would mean that Tesla is replacing AP1 cars with AP2 cars. That's absolutely Fantastic News.

Congratulations to Tesla. Excellent work.