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Are the 21" Wheels stopping your Performance upgrade?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by bluetinc, Jun 9, 2012.

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Are the 21" Wheels stopping your Prefomance upgrade?

  1. I am already ordering the Performance version and keeping the 21s.

    72 vote(s)
    48.3%
  2. I am already ordering the Performance version and I would take the credit for the downgrade.

    18 vote(s)
    12.1%
  3. I would order the Performance version only if I get credit for the downgrade to 19s.

    37 vote(s)
    24.8%
  4. I am already ordering the Standard version and keeping my order unchanged.

    22 vote(s)
    14.8%
  1. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    The polls are interesting but make sure you contact Tesla to let them know your thoughts. Maybe they'll change the policy.
     
  2. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    From a financial point of view (i.e. Tesla profit), only two real poll options matter:

    A) People buying the Perf with 19" tires despite no credit.
    B) People skipping the Perf because of the lack of credit.

    The other scenarios (Perf that want the 21" and no Perf regardless) don't have any impact on the 19" credit/no-credit financial impact.

    As I've said before, since it's a dead horse we come back to periodically flog, I think having the same tire policy across all models is the best policy.

    From a financial perspective, it's about whether Tesla makes more money on the people in Category A above vs. money lost due to people in Category B.
     
  3. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

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    dsm363,

    Yes, that is exactly my plan. I figured that simply writing that I'm not happy really doesn't hold much water, but if my assumptions are correct, I can make a financial argument to Tesla that should. I have a worksheet that outlines both the cost to Tesla in lost profit on those who are taking advantage of the downgrade vs. the increased profit due to the extra upgrades from the new performance sales. The greater the number that vote in this poll, the more valid my numbers will be. I expect to have something out later this week.

    Ckessel, you posted as I was writing this out! Having the numbers for the other two catagories helps me calculate a change in total profit margin for all sales, which in the end has great meaning.... say if you could take a profit margin from 25% to 26 or 27....


    Peter
     
  4. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    ^ If you give credit to those in your Catergory B then you'll also have to go back and offer it to those who've already ordered in Category A. I'm not going to discourage anyone talking to Tesla, but IMO this horse is definitely dead. (I'm soo tempted to add something from the Monty Python parrot sketch here.)
     
  5. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    It's probably safe to assume the earliest buyers (the most pro-Tesla) are the least price sensitive if considered as an overall group. And folks in this forum probably skew to even further to the pro-Tesla end of things. Tesla's initial deliveries are also heavily skewed to warm climates (largely due to Tesla's location in the SF bay area bringing heavy awareness in that area) and those folks are again likely to care less about the drawbacks of 21" rims (bad weather and bad roads due to bad weather).

    Consequently, my personal belief is the numbers here would under-represent the folks put off by the lack of credit.

    Now, that's pure personal opinion. I can't think of any way we could really get hard, quantitative numbers on the "average" buyer.
     
  6. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    At this point there aren't Perfs that ordered with 19" since the poll isn't considering Sigs. Sigs are something of a special case given they're already willing to pay a surcharge for the car.
     
  7. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Huh? Where did it say that Sig buyers couldn't vote?

    Also Sig reservation holders were just those willing to put more money down early enough and they're only about halfway through configuration. It's a massive assumption to state that those people are willing to pay a surcharge for the car.
     
  8. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    I'm just saying the poll isn't about Sigs. The poll is about the standard vs. Perf. Not the Sig vs. Sig Perf.

    The credit differential only really impacts Standard vs. Perf with 19" wheels since that creates an additional $3500 gap. There's no such gap with Sigs since both Sig and Sig Perf come with 21" standard.

    Now, I'd be all for giving Sigs a 19" tire credit, but because the tire choice doesn't change the price differential then it has little to no bearing on whether someone would upgrade from Sig->Sig Perf.

    Every Sig purchaser is paying a Sig surcharge, therefore they must be willing to pay for it. Granted, not every Sig reservationist may end up a purchaser.
     
  9. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    ^ Sigs weren't excluded, on the contrary 3 of the 4 options on the poll are past tense implied which means Sig buyers.....
     
  10. bluetinc

    bluetinc Member

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    NigelM,

    I am not excluding the Sigs, and while the question of upgrading to the Pref package only if one gets a wheel credit is not valid, the loss of profit from any Sig orders that would take the credit is real, and I would like to capture it.

    Peter
     
  11. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #31 ckessel, Jun 11, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
    There's no Perf upgrade price differential for Sig buyers based on wheel choice so this entire thread is sort of pointless when applied to Sigs.

    Edit: while it's admirable bluetinc wants to include Sigs, I think it's pointless. Tesla isn't changing Sig pricing as those have already finalized some orders (hell, even shipped two). You could end up with folks that dropped Sigs that would want to reconsider that in light of a pricing change. Down that path there is no way for Tesla to avoid issues.

    Non-Sigs haven't even been ordered yet, so pricing changes for those still are relevant to consider.
     
  12. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    ^^ Thanks Peter. That's what I was unsuccessfully trying to get across to ckessel.

    BTW: Good luck with your argument, but I still think you're flogging a dead horse.
     
  13. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    #33 ckessel, Jun 11, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2012
    Nigel, I understand your point, but it's addressing a non-factor. With Sigs, there is no one in category B since there is no additional price differential based on tire choice.
    If you don't agree, I'd be very interested in hearing a scenario where someone chooses not to upgrade Sig->PerfSig due to the lack of tire credit. I can't come up with one. I can certainly believe they'd like the credit, but I can't see it determining whether they get the SigPerf. It's $10k to move from Sig->SigPerf regardless of what tires you'd choose.
     
  14. afilm_guy

    afilm_guy Member

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    I am so surprised at tesla indifference to this issue of wheel selection, for such a wonderful car.
    Elon musk on multiple occasions does not want a compromise automobile.
    He wants this to be the best experience possible including renewable energy

    So why are they putting us all through this agonizing issue?

    This car is supposed to be very efficient very sporty and very beautiful
    while doing so many wonderful things.

    This design is unique, where we do not have to carry the burden of inefficiency
    to have the car with the big engine, and yet have the performance in our back pocket
    whenever we want it.

    Most of us do not drive the canyon roads at the limit of the tires in our daily commute.
    But having the extra power for passing on the expressway would sure be nice.

    It feels like one of those designer types might be given too much latitude.
    Like that Henry guy with custom-made tires for his car while not caring a spare.

    20 inch wheels 40 series would be my personal choice.
    Can I have my signature delivered on a pallet with no wheels or tires.
    So I can take my time to do what is truly right for this vehicle.

    Or is one of the tesla surprises there are going to show up with some good wheels that makes sense
    at the 11th hour?

    There is no reason a automaker that is supposed to be new and exciting,
    should be causing this much drama when it comes to the rubber that hits the road!
    Why are we being asked to trade amongst ourselves to get the package that works for our personal situation?
     
  15. raptorweb

    raptorweb Member

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    FWIW the loss of the aero wheels has pushed me all the way to the pref. I wanted the aero wheels and also the 21" turbine's but didn't want to take the hit on the price for the aero wheels with the perf, now that its not an option I am completely ok getting the perf with the 21"
     
  16. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Voltage makes me tingle.

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    I've convinced myself now that if I can get a credit for the 19s, I'll go performance. I'd better not get my hopes up.
     
  17. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    Yep, if they gave credit, it's a done deal for me. Without the credit, that extra $3500 gap vs. the base model is out of my comfort zone.

    I reserve the right to change my comfort zone if TSLA goes bonkers and funnels me thousands of extra dollars.
     
  18. gmontem

    gmontem Model S P01707

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    $3500 credit, even if it is only Tesla store and service credit -- wow think of all the Model S RC cars and onesies I can buy! -- will help me push from general production S to performance S.
    Sent from my HTC Titan using Board Express
     
  19. teslasguy

    teslasguy MSP P#1117

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    I'm struggling with this very issue. 21" wheels in snow country is worthless as a year round solution.
    I can appreciate that California customers don't have this issue (for the most part).
    However, it forces all of us in snow country to buy a second set of wheels/tires unless we just trade the 21" wheels for 19" up front.
    If we do that it means that we're paying an extra $3500 for nothing.
    Doesn't seem like a very customer friendly situation to put all the snow country customers in.

    And I live outside Philly, which is a relatively moderate climate compared to the Northeast.
     
  20. MikeK

    MikeK R#129, TSLA shareholder

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    For me, as someone planning on the 60kWh pack, the combined bump from going to 85kWh and adding Performance would rule it out even if I could get the credit for the wheels.
     

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