As Model 3 deliveries ramp up, are you worried about charger queuing?

[ewoodrick]

In the US they started limiting charging to 80% at heavy use Superchargers and during holidays.

 

[Oldschool496]

In the US they started limiting charging to 80% at heavy use Superchargers and during holidays.

That happened to me on the aforementioned trip last weekend above. That was a first. You can however change the setting either higher or lower as the attached message says to suit your needs. Again splash and go seems to be the long term answer. I needed 96 miles actual to make to destination. I unplugged right after taking this pic. MY car charges to 249. My car also has free supercharging. Well just because its free, does not necessarily behove you to fill it to max.

50 minutes once or 25 or 20 minutes twice. Last weekend it was chancing it stopping more than once. I met some great people though. Sorry for the dust. Great camera, too much detail. Going 80-85MPH most of the way. IT was also quite hot and the tires are plumped up beyond the 45PSI. All good stuff.

 

[CMc1]

Helps when S/X don’t use CCS bays when there are other bays available. “Model 3 priority” stickers aren’t that common and have prevented me charging a few times already (I’ve only had the car 8-days).

spreading awareness around CCS stalls will help until the entire network is updated. Current CCS stalls tracked here.

Also, apps such as Need to Charge are helpful. Shame Tesla don’t have it built in across the fleet.

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

I mostly use the northbound M3 services supercharger ever since it opened. i've yet to even see it half full, and have never seen a model 3 there (yet).
Having said that, it is LONG past time that the southbound charger bays were actually turned on.

 

[Rooster6655]

Yes worried firstly about the fleet sizing doubling and then secondly there not being enough CCS chargers (I know they might still upgrade more) fortunately with other charging providers making a good effort these days it may mean less need for me to use the superchargers.

Obviously timing is going to be the most important part as to whether the chargers will be busy or not and fortunately I can usually base my charging around this.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Both of my supercharging experiences so far involved queuing.

How many stalls where you stopped? In over 3 years of Tesla I have only had to queue once, and I have Supercharged over 250 times (I now find having checked TeslaFi ...)

the number of Model 3s will be at least equal to the total number of Models S & X combined, so there will be twice as many cars vying for the same chargers

I am not so sure that the maths will stack up like that. I think there may well be more short-journey users in the Model-3 camp, and Model-S/X owners are predominantly free-Supercharger status, so no financial incentive not to buzz off when done.

Tesla stopping Supercharges at 80% SOC will make a significant difference too ... I never charge above 80% and I am often last-to-arrive and first-to-leave, so other folk there must be charging higher

It consists of two stalls with shared power. Underwhelming at best.

Tesla have only opened one 6-stall site since 2015 ... I now never stop at the few 2 stall sites in the UK (there are less than 10 anyway ...) in case they are full, and avoid 4 stall sites when possible.

Meanwhile Ionity are building brand new, ultra high speed, sites ... with 2 and 4 stalls, so they will be chockablock shortly ... so whatever problem you think Tesla may have, the others are going to be in worse state.

 

[LEE3]

I wonder if Tesla have usage / capacity data to determine what charger locations are struggling to cope with demand.

It could be beneficial for the car to receive some data on typical usage at various locations so you could feasibly plan to drive into the next one as that is typicality quieter etc.

I guess as Model 3 owners will be paying for super charger use we can also utilise non Tesla chargers which will help reduce the demand somewhat.

 

[LukeT]

Meanwhile Ionity are building brand new, ultra high speed, sites ... with 2 and 4 stalls, so they will be chockablock shortly ... so whatever problem you think Tesla may have, the others are going to be in worse state.

It rather strikes me that if one was to analyse number of cars on the road, their respective ranges and uses, and the availability of charging infrastructure for them, it may be that vw et al need to build, or for others to build, one hell of a lot of infrastructure before it's Tesla owners doing the queueing in a couple of years.

That said, pressure on superchargers must surely see a significant increase and the total number of stalls across the country would need to rise accordingly. However, perhaps better to build new facilities (of >8 stalls) than expand existing (except the tiddlers). If I had a few options on my 200 mile journey I wouldn't much care where I stop, but I have one half way and one near (but 5 mins off route) at either end. I reckon I'll only use the one near the middle but 50 miles either side of that and I'd be pretty indifferent. Well, I'd pick it based on coffee quality or shop.

Then again, I'll normally only need to stop on that journey if I've used range because of more than normal use. So just like most other tesla owners, charging is almost all home or work. What proportion of supercharger use is strictly necessary? How much of the rest would disappear if we got used to a queue here and there? Some, surely.

 

[LukeT]

I guess as Model 3 owners will be paying for super charger use we can also utilise non Tesla chargers which will help reduce the demand somewhat.

So long as they are nearly as easy to use as Tesla's. I also don't have life supercharger use. The cost doesn't bother me since I anticipate using it so little. The faff could put me off though, from the stories we read (I haven't experienced the issue yet). Lot to be said for "push button and flap opens, shove plug in car, walk away"!

 

[Mcraciun]

I haven't even got the car but I've booked a roadtrip to france (Annecy) in December (26th of december to 4th of jan). The car is a SR+ and hopefully I'll get it before then lol! According to ABRP i should be fine only having to stop about 4 times for ~20 mins each time, which sounds perfect! Some time to stretch our legs, grab a bite and have a coffee. My sister will also be driving in her ICE (Audi A7 Quattro) so we'll see if she finds the stops annoying or she'll enjoy having to stop and relax for a bit - she'll be travelling with her 2yo in the car so may need the breaks. I know for a fact I'll end up paying much much less than her on charging.

I'm a bit anxious but should be fine... I hope!
I'm relying on getting a 90% charge at Folkestone so a bit worried if I have to queue there as I have to be on the train later on, but I guess if I don't get to charge there (unlikely, as we're taking the 1:23AM train, but also a very busy day of the year so who knows) I might get to stop in Calais or just after - ABRP doesn't show this as a required stop but I'm just being cautious as we'll be in folkestone terminal for an hour or so.

 

[ivangr]

Because I live in the centre of Edinburgh (I have secure parking but no drive) I'm going to try and rely on the public infrastructure making this a live concern for me. There are already 9 (free) ChargePlace Scotland charge points within a 2 min walk of my house and the city is rolling out 10 "community charging hubs" across the city over the next 12 months we're going to. As I'm ineligible for the OLEV grant the urgency of putting one in front of my house (and trailing cord across pavement) is a low priority. I've been monitoring the points around my house and they are rarely full, or even in use.

What worries me more is attempting the NC 500 in October in my M3.

edinburgh here also. we have a guy at work with a zoe. he has had it for years and never bothered with installing a chargepoint. he just charges it about town as needed.

(i went for a spin in his zoe and liked it so much that i ordered a model 3. zoe is a nice car)

 

[WannabeOwner]

I wonder if Tesla have usage / capacity data to determine what charger locations are struggling to cope with demand.

If I am understanding you right then Yes. Car shows stall occupancy (when you click on the Red Supercharger Pin), and Tesla have TV screens at some places showing occupancy around the world. When Occupancy data first appeared on SatNav one owner (VeryGreen maybe?) reverse engineered it and came up with a website of realtime data. Tesla then asked him to take it down (and gave him their commercial reasons why)

It could be beneficial for the car to receive some data on typical usage at various locations so you could feasibly plan to drive into the next one as that is typicality quieter etc.

I've vacillated on this. A couple of cars arriving just before you and filling the last two stalls will spoil your day ... average occupancy data won't prevent that. I just stick to the sites with more stalls (when I have a planning choice)

It rather strikes me that if one was to analyse number of cars on the road, their respective ranges and uses, and the availability of charging infrastructure for them, it may be that vw et al need to build, or for others to build, one hell of a lot of infrastructure before it's Tesla owners doing the queueing in a couple of years.

Absolutely. Government can and should help (e.g. pay/loan Ionity to put in twice as many stalls at each site). I don't think that lots of sites with a couple of stalls is a good outcome. Fine for petrol - average dwell time is 5 minutes or so. But where dwell time is 30+ minutes fewer sites, more stalls, more stall-turnover will maximise throughput. There is zero chance that there will be a single APP, encompassing all 3rd party charger brands, that will show you which of the multitude of local, 2-stall, sites is your best bet for an unoccupied stall

If I'm right on that then good news that the big-site route is the one that Tesla has gone down ... and the others have not - Boo Sucks to them. Whilst Musk says that Supercharger is open to other Brands to licence it hasn't happened (maybe if anyone HAS tried they got cold-shoulder?) but either way Supercharger has become huge USP for Tesla. No idea how Tesla will have cash to fund Superchargers ... but ... way better than anything 3rd party is offering.

So long as they are nearly as easy to use as Tesla's. I also don't have life supercharger use. The cost doesn't bother me since I anticipate using it so little. The faff could put me off though, from the stories we read (I haven't experienced the issue yet). Lot to be said for "push button and flap opens, shove plug in car, walk away"!

I have not had a single 3rd party charge that was zero-hassle, and most of them took more than 5 minutes to "get started". Part of that is that I don't use them regularly, so I haven't felt the need to pay a monthly subscription ( WTF?) or get an RFID. Ionity definitely heading for "plug-in & walk-away", and Merceded Me (or whatever it is called) looks really good if it works as per "on the can" (it aims to offer plug in and walk away at ANY 3rd party charger in EU) . My worst was 20 minutes getting connected, which was 2 attempts at pump one, then use cable (not move car) to Pump 2 and connect to that. Most of that time was wading through the session data on the APP for an adhoc charge (you know: the sort of thing you would expect to just flash a credit card to buy a service, instead of having to manually type in full name, address, email and all credit card details on a poxy phone keyboard ... )

So, yeah, Tesla absolutely have this right. Queuing at Supercharger may become an issue, but it will be far worse for all other non-Tesla brands. Bjorn seems to do alright in Norway, so there is hope that scale will sort out the marketplace. There seems to be a fair groundswell over there to allow any RFID to be used at all pump brands. Unlike bloodsucker BP ChargeMaster who think they will move the whole market to monthly subscription in order to be able to use their pumps at all. Muppets, consumers will vote with their feet on that and BP will miss the opportunity to corner the market.

My sister will also be driving in her ICE (Audi A7 Quattro) so we'll see if she finds the stops annoying or she'll enjoy having to stop and relax for a bit - she'll be travelling with her 2yo in the car so may need the breaks

I'm a old codger and familiar with driving for hours on end ... even though I recognise the benefits of enforced stops. Youngsters that I speak to seem much more likely to plan in breaks on long journeys than my generation. Talking to one recently he said that knowing he had to stop (in EV) meant he had no angst about having to drive an overly long stretch, given the enforced Supercharging stops. So maybe your Audi sister will find that?

I look at long-journey enforced Supercharger stops as great for driver ... and PITA for passengers. In Old ICE Days we would drive for 2 hours and swap drivers, so no impact on arrival time. Just for fun I used ABRP to go from London to Courcheval ... 1h40m charging in total We stop for longer than that for pit-stops on ICE ... so bigger batteries / more efficiency is going to make long journeys a non-event over the next iteration or two of EV evolution (and reduce the number of times people with home chargers ever need to charge on a journey - changing from current MS 250 mile real-world range to 300-350 mile "Raven" will cut mine from twice a month to once or twice a year)

I'm relying on getting a 90% charge at Folkestone ...

Just in case you were not aware: in addition to regular charger in the departure area in Calais there are 2 stalls at Flexiplus lounge at Calais - in case that tempts you to travel POSH Not (yet?) got that at Folkstone end

 

[Mcraciun]

I'm a old codger and familiar with driving for hours on end ... even though I recognise the benefits of enforced stops. Youngsters that I speak to seem much more likely to plan in breaks on long journeys than my generation. Talking to one recently he said that knowing he had to stop (in EV) meant he had no angst about having to drive an overly long stretch, given the enforced Supercharging stops. So maybe your Audi sister will find that?

I look at long-journey enforced Supercharger stops as great for driver ... and PITA for passengers. In Old ICE Days we would drive for 2 hours and swap drivers, so no impact on arrival time. Just for fun I used ABRP to go from London to Courcheval ... 1h40m charging in total We stop for longer than that for pit-stops on ICE ... so bigger batteries / more efficiency is going to make long journeys a non-event over the next iteration or two of EV evolution (and reduce the number of times people with home chargers ever need to charge on a journey - changing from current MS 250 mile real-world range to 300-350 mile "Raven" will cut mine from twice a month to once or twice a year)

Just in case you were not aware: in addition to regular charger in the departure area in Calais there are 2 stalls at Flexiplus lounge at Calais - in case that tempts you to travel POSH Not (yet?) got that at Folkstone end

We usually drive for a cup of coffee or just to stretch our legs when we drive somewhere, and this time we'll have our parents too so I think the breaks will be needed for them too. But i'm really interested to see if the timing of the breaks (i.e. demanded by car) will match what we want to do haha.

Not quite sure about Flexiplus lounge yet!
Only have the SR+ on order atm. Maybe a LR Model Y in a few years, but that might be 3-4 teslayears later

 

[kevuwk]

Main worry for me is central Wales. There look to be very few chargers along the A483/A470 which I sometimes use instead of going past Birmingham on the M6/M5

 

[WannabeOwner]

Not quite sure about Flexiplus lounge yet!

£219 versus whatever the regular rate is, usually around £100 (each way). But worth watching the price because at peak times the "regular rate" climbs close to Flexiplus rate ...

 

[WannabeOwner]

Main worry for me is central Wales. There look to be very few chargers along the A483/A470 which I sometimes use instead of going past Birmingham on the M6/M5

stating the obvious but:

You only need Supercharger at, say, 150 miles from home outbound, and on return around the 100 mile mark from home is ideal - by then you know more accurately how much you need, as most of the traffic / roadworks holdups (which improve range) will have occurred, so can keep charging to minimum to safely get home.

... provided that you have home charging.

 

[kevuwk]

stating the obvious but:

You only need Supercharger at, say, 150 miles from home outbound, and on return around the 100 mile mark from home is ideal - by then you know more accurately how much you need, as most of the traffic / roadworks holdups (which improve range) will have occurred, so can keep charging to minimum to safely get home.

... provided that you have home charging.

The last supercharger I would pass outbound is 60 miles in to a ~230 mile trip, inbound I would then pass one at ~170 miles and another at ~190 miles. I can charge to 100% at either end so maybe I could eek out that 230 miles in an LR in all conditions

 

[WannabeOwner]

maybe I could eek out

If you are not already aware of it then worth trying your journey in A Better Routeplanner

 

[kevuwk]

If you are not already aware of it then worth trying your journey in A Better Routeplanner

I've looked at it and at 10C, rain and 15mph headwind, which is probably average in this country, I would have to charge in Warrington which is probably an hour before I would really want to have a break. Hopefully Tesla will get a move on with their supposed planned chargers in Builth Wells

 

[WannabeOwner]

Hopefully Tesla will get a move on with their supposed planned chargers in Builth Wells

Note that the "coming soon" Supercharger Pins on Tesla Website map are "rough idea of where they might build one" ... so the actual one may not be particularly near the Pin ... might be better placed for you of course ... or not ... and the timescale historically has been a bit "sometime never"