Australian federal Strategy on Electric Cars

[paulp]

In answering my own question;

With the fuel-efficient threshold due to rise by more than $2,000 for the 2021/22 financial year, base pricing for the Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus, Nissan Leaf and Leaf e-Plus, Hyundai Kona Electric, Kia Niro, and Hyundai Ioniq has been reported at below the newer threshold limit (due to be introduced from 1 July) at the time of writing.

Only really seeing one choice in there for reasonable distance family driving. Only one choice suggests the policy isnt yet correct.

 

[Hairyman]

I agree with @paulp. The LCT as currently arranged is well past its purpose and there are better ways of sorting out progressive taxation. I find the current strategy to be fairly thin sophistry with little in the way of serious efforts to change the status quo beyond a bare minimum. I do like the idea of improving charging infrastructure, but it needs to go along with a meaningful effort to get carbon out of electricity production. The feds have been dragged along at every stage by people ignoring them and getting on with things.

 

[paulp]

As an example, a relative is about to buy a new car. Audi. He sees no reason to pay $20k more for an ev. He can easily afford the 20k, but now we have another petrol car on the road instead of ev as the ev lost the value equation. Without the lct the value equation typically works.

Regardless of wealth we need a mechanism to encourage ev sale of any price point and disincentivise the sale of fossil fuel cars. We need ev’s at all price points to be the better value. Tax arrangements can do that.
Regrettbly environmental decisions fall behind his value decisions, and given the ratio of fossil to ev sales I’m suggesting he is in the majority.

 

[moa999]

SR+, some LR.
MG ZS EV, Hyundai Ioniq, Ioniq5, Nissan Leaf, Mini Cooper SE, BYD e6, BYD T3, Renault Kangoo van, Mazda MX-30
Probably the Kia EV6 when released, maybe Genesis GV60

The only real vehicles we are missing from the UK that might be under would be the VW e-up, id3 and id4.. and VW will sell everything they can in Europe instead to offset the emissions taxes from their other vehicles.

Then the Fiat 500 electric and MG 5 EV wagon.

And then the smaller quadcycle class vehicles that I don't think are legal in Aus (Renault Twizzy, Smart EQ)

 

[moa999]

As an example, a relative is about to buy a new car. Audi. He sees no reason to pay $20k more for an ev. He can easily afford the 20k,

What Audi?
The Tesla M3 is cheaper than the equivalent A4/A5 and smashes it for performance at all levels.

If they are buying an A3, then there just isn't anything in that size price point in EVs.

 

[Culfy]

The only incentive that is needed is to remove the “luxury“ car tax for all ev’s, even if its just for a few years….or at the very least increase the threshold

Haha, you mean the luxury car tax designed to allow the government to prop up our local car manufacturing industry? Where does that money go now there isn't one?

 

[paulp]

What Audi?
The Tesla M3 is cheaper than the equivalent A4/A5 and smashes it for performance at all levels.

If they are buying an A3, then there just isn't anything in that size price point in EVs.

I didnt ask which audi because I dont know his criteria, and you dont have to convince me….I’ve been an ev convert for 7 years.
But others have different criteria and performance isnt always high on the list.
M3 will never be owned by me for example simply because of the boot opening size. Just doesnt work for my lifestyle or motoring needs. I need a hatch or small suv. Thats why I have model s, but if the model S was made in model 3 size i’d be in

 

[Culfy]

Australia has one of the most relaxed emissions laws of the developed world, that's why we are the dumping ground of all the old tech engines. As has been said, OEMs are not interested in sending us any of their good stuff when other parts of the world have higher standards ("overseas model shown" ringing any bells?). Same approach is hurting EV availability. There's a lot of wrong to right. It's not going to happen with a $3k one off payment and subsidised chargers. They need a strategy, not a knee jerk.

 

[moa999]

Haha, you mean the luxury car tax designed to allow the government to prop up our local car manufacturing industry? Where does that money go now there isn't one?

That's was only ever the excuse.
It was only ever designed to prop up government revenue, as car sales tax used to average 25+%.

The level of the LCT only ever protected a few Calais and Fairlane sales.

There was no protection for the base Falcodores

 

[moa999]

didnt ask which audi because I dont know his criteria, and you dont have to convince me….I’ve been an ev convert for 7 years.

Then how do you know the excuse was $20k more.
At the premium sedan level you are paying less for a TM3.

Equally the Model S when available was about the same price as a mid-spec A6.

The big difference is really there at the cheaper end where MG for example chargers a big premium for the EV model of the ZS

 

[paulp]

Then how do you know the excuse was $20k more.
At the premium sedan level you are paying less for a TM3.

Equally the Model S when available was about the same price as a mid-spec A6.

The big difference is really there at the cheaper end where MG for example chargers a big premium for the EV model of the ZS

He told me it was $20k more so taken on face value. I didnt ask which audi coz I really dont care when it comes to fossil cars. They are all the same junk different badge to me. I’ve also learnt not to lecture family members or friends on their motoring choices. EV is a life changing decision and each person needs to discover that for themself.

 

[Vostok]

Not a trick question, but how many ev’s are for sale in australia below the luxury car tax?

I think that’s already been answered, but this article lists:

• MG ZS EV
• Hyundai Ioniq 2020
• Nissan Leaf
• Mini Cooper SE
• Hyundai Kona Electric
• Tesla Model 3 SR+
• BMW i3

Also I have no issue with luxury car buyers paying a luxury car tax. Just not convinced that the average wage earner (around $80k) should be considered wealthy or upper class, and not convinced that the same average wage earner should be paying the same luxury car tax as say you or me who can easily afford it. Think of it another way. If your an average wage earner and you want to do the right thing by the environment, you’ve got your solar panels, heat pump etc and now want to do emmisions free motoring, but drive interstate a lot, which car can I buy to easily do that which fits my average wage supporting a family?

I suspect not many people who earn $80k are spending their entire pre-tax annual salary on a new vehicle, but I don’t rule out the possibility.

I think eligibility for rebates and discounts should be based both on the price of the vehicle and the taxable income of the purchaser (i.e., means testing). That way, whatever Government funding is being thrown at this goes a lot further and is targeted to where it will make the most difference. But I accept the latter does make programme administration much more complicated and you can still get anomalies/avoidance such as asset-rich people who might take a year off work and qualify based on their previous tax return, or husbands getting a dependent wife (or vice-versa) to be the purchaser.

 

[aegidius]

There's still a 15-20k EV premium at the cheap end. It's getting close to the point at which 5-year fuel savings would cover it if you do highish kms in a year, though.

Anything from a 3SR+ up has long ago reached price parity or price advantage with comparable ICE.

 

[Hairyman]

I think that’s already been answered, but this article lists:

• MG ZS EV
• Hyundai Ioniq 2020
• Nissan Leaf
• Mini Cooper SE
• Hyundai Kona Electric
• Tesla Model 3 SR+
• BMW i3

I suspect not many people who earn $80k are spending their entire pre-tax annual salary on a new vehicle, but I don’t rule out the possibility.

I think eligibility for rebates and discounts should be based both on the price of the vehicle and the taxable income of the purchaser (i.e., means testing). That way, whatever Government funding is being thrown at this goes a lot further and is targeted to where it will make the most difference. But I accept the latter does make programme administration much more complicated and you can still get anomalies/avoidance such as asset-rich people who might take a year off work and qualify based on their previous tax return, or husbands getting a dependent wife (or vice-versa) to be the purchaser.

I remember a few threads on the Tesla homesite forums with a good many people reporting that the Model 3 they were buying was much more expensive than any other car that they had had, but they were prepared to stretch because of the value that they saw in the cars.

Certainly knowing the demographics of Tesla buyers, especially for the Model 3 and Y would be very interesting.

 

[Vostok]

I remember a few threads on the Tesla homesite forums with a good many people reporting that the Model 3 they were buying was much more expensive than any other car that they had had, but they were prepared to stretch because of the value that they saw in the cars.

I’m sure that is the case for many. It was true for me. When I bought my Leaf in 2014, it was by 50% the most expensive car I had ever purchased. Then I doubled that plus a bit for Model 3. Worth every cent!

But I don’t buy stuff just because I can - I still seek value for money and I definitely don’t buy more than I need.

 

[Vostok]

Here’s an updated list adding in cars from this list:

• BMW i3
• Hyundai Ioniq 2020
• Hyundai Ioniq 5
• Hyundai Kona Electric
• Kia Nero Electric
• Mazda MX30 E35 Electric
• Mercedes-Benz EQA 250
• MG ZS EV
• Mini Cooper SE
• Nissan Leaf / Leaf E+
• Tesla Model 3 SR+
• Volvo XC40 Electric

So 12 models available in Australia, although some of these have already sold out of their paltry 2021 allocations for Australia.

 

[Culfy]

That's was only ever the excuse.
It was only ever designed to prop up government revenue, as car sales tax used to average 25+%.

The level of the LCT only ever protected a few Calais and Fairlane sales.

There was no protection for the base Falcodores

The claim was that it went into the subsidies for those companies, not that it priced cars out of the market segment. But as fickle humans, we forget the why and accept it. Since the local industry was killed off, there is no valid reason for a LCT.

 

[Culfy]

I remember a few threads on the Tesla homesite forums with a good many people reporting that the Model 3 they were buying was much more expensive than any other car that they had had, but they were prepared to stretch because of the value that they saw in the cars.

Certainly knowing the demographics of Tesla buyers, especially for the Model 3 and Y would be very interesting.

Yes, worked for me. I came from a V8 Holden Calais. It was much cheaper than the M3P and I still have it, 12 years later. It'll be sold sadly as I transition towards a better, greener world. Great car but it's time for a paradigm shift. It cost me a total of $1000 in non warranty repairs over 12 years which I doubt I'll ever equal again. I said my next car was going to be a VF HSV GTS but the price of them now made me look elsewhere. Since Australian cars are no more I looked to another personal value, sustainability. It's a shame Holden didn't release the Electric VE Commodore. 5 min battery swaps are even faster than a 15min supercharge.
Oops, sorry for the OT commentary.

 

[Vostok]

It’s interesting that NSW now probably has the most significant EV incentives in the country. And you know which party is in Goverment here. Then again, Matt Kean is an unusually knowledgeable, insightful and capable Minister. I’ve asked to have a meeting with him on suburban on-street charging which is part of the Government’s EV plan, having done some amateur research as to feasible low-cost options for that. If I get punted to chat with a Departmental rep I’d still be happy with that.

As predicted, I am not meeting with the Minister, but "The Treasurer has asked his Department to meet with you on his behalf" so that's pretty good. No date set yet.

Anything in particular anyone from NSW would like me to add in to the discussion?

 

[moa999]

Couple of thoughts

Street charging
- common council policies on usage of temporary cables with appropriate protections over footpaths
- reduce red tape for other chargers (eg. The two coming soon Jolt chargers in Randwick have been tied up in council for almost 12 months)
- possibly funding for trials of pop/pull-up chargers or use of smart poles

Strata charging
- reform in smaller blocks to allow default connection to own meter
- policy and possibly interest free/cheap loans to larger stratas to fund backbone upgrades and systems for charging