Auto Lane Change almost hit car in adjacent lane - anyone else?

[spooky981]

Its criminal for Elon to talk about an S making an unpiloted cross-country trip, or be part of a driverless ride-sharing network, when the vehicle can't even safely change lanes today. That stuff is a decade away. I love my S but I feel bad for people who buy into the hype.

 

[bob_p]

I re-read the AP2 8.1 release notes.

Like others, we had assumed "auto lane change" meant the software was detecting when it was safe to change lanes, based on the sensors determine no vehicle was present in the adjacent lane.

And that isn't what the release notes state.

Tesla could probably have done a better job in the release notes to clearly state - The software will detect the location of the adjacent lane and perform the lane change operation, but it WILL NOT DETECT vehicles in the adjacent lanes.

 

[ElectricTundra]

Remember that this is still BETA software. Drivers are not to rely on AP1 or AP2 features always working properly and drivers are always fully responsible. There are myriads of corner and edge cases where various AP features will fail and it will remain beta until those are dealt with. That will likely take at least a year or two.

BTW, if you have a blind spot then your mirrors are not adjusted properly. This is common with US drivers who seem to want to be able to see the side of their vehicle. If you can see the side of your own vehicle then your mirrors are adjusted too far inward and this is what creates the blind spot that US drivers experience. Side mirrors purpose is to see in the lane beside the vehicle.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

What I don't understand is why sometimes the lane change occurs pretty soon after I engage in the turn signal and other times, it takes a real long time (or doesn't do it at all)? In all cases, I don't see any cars in my way and the lane markings are clear. (I have an AP1).

Under AP1 (and probably AP2 as well, although I haven't driven one), lane change is available once several conditions have been met:

1. AP must detect that there is an adjacent lane. It does this by looking at the lane markers of the lane you're in. If those lane markers are white dashed lines, then it assumes that an adjacent lane exists. If the lines are anything else -- yellow, solid, double, etc. then it assumes that no adjacent lane exists and therefore auto lane change will not be available. If AP detects that there is an adjacent lane, that lane will be shown on the AP display.

2. There are situations where the radar (or the front ultrasonic sensors) can detect a vehicle in your adjacent lane closer than what is shown on the AP display. You must wait for that vehicle to move forward in that lane far enough so that it appears on the display before auto lane change will let you change lanes.

 

[RAW84]

How did you come to believe that the car would detect other cars and prevent a lane change in this situation? That is not listed as a feature or expected behavior anywhere.

The auto-lane change feature (both AP2 and AP1) means solely that the car will control steering for you when you order the lane change using the turn signal lever. It does not and is not designed to make the decision on whether the lane change is safe or not. That remains your responsibility at all times, no matter what driver aid systems you have activated.

Please read the owner's manual of the car and familiarize yourself with what the car can and cannot do before you get into an accident.

AP1 absolutely will check the adjacent lane and wait to change lanes until it deems it is safe to do so. They touted this when they released the auto-lane change feature, and I have verified that my car does behave this way.

Tesla's language here did cause some confusion because it will not check to see if a car is coming in "hot" before making a lane change but if it detects a car in an adjacent lane it will not make the lane change.

 

[DCGOO]

Under AP1 (and probably AP2 as well, although I haven't driven one), lane change is available once several conditions have been met:

1. AP must detect that there is an adjacent lane. It does this by looking at the lane markers of the lane you're in. If those lane markers are white dashed lines, then it assumes that an adjacent lane exists. If the lines are anything else -- yellow, solid, double, etc. then it assumes that no adjacent lane exists and therefore auto lane change will not be available. If AP detects that there is an adjacent lane, that lane will be shown on the AP display.

I'll add to this, that sometimes the car simply loses track of the existence of adjacent lanes. You can see this in the dash display. If there is an adjacent lane they show up as a somewhat fainter line outside the blue lines you are following. Could be marginal visibility of the lane markings, due to aged paint on the pavement, poor weather or simply driving into the sun can cause this. If the car does not positively detect an adjacent lane, it will not allow you to auto-change lanes.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

AP1 absolutely will check the adjacent lane and wait to change lanes until it deems it is safe to do so. They touted this when they released the auto-lane change feature, and I have verified that my car does behave this way.

Tesla's language here did cause some confusion because it will not check to see if a car is coming in "hot" before making a lane change but if it detects a car in an adjacent lane it will not make the lane change.

Read my post above yours. There are situations where auto-lane change will not initiate the lane change because it has detected other cars, but you cannot rely on this:

1. There is no guarantee that the ultrasonic sensors will detect all vehicles. They're famous for not detecting motorcycles, bicycles, trucks (due to their height, the sensor sees the empty space underneath the truck), and vehicles that due to size or position may be further than 6-8 feet away.

2. AP only checks the conditions at the start of the lane change, it does not monitor the sensors during the lane change. Combine this with the high latency (up to 1-2 seconds) of the ultrasonic sensors, and you can have what the sensors consider a safe condition at the initiation of the lane change, only to have the situation deteriorate to unsafe conditions well before you've moved into the next lane.

As such, the ability of auto lane change to prevent a side collision should only be considered an emergency safety feature, similar to automatic emergency braking or side collision avoidance, and not be relied upon.

 

[croman]

You can't rely on this to keep you safe. If you do, you'll end up in a wreck. Use the feature only to avoid disengaging and reengaging AP. Otherwise you've gotta do all the legwork. Don't let laziness get you killed or we'll be handing out Darwin Awards.

 

[AB4EJ]

Something I believe was mentioned in a couple of other posts - I notice that the ultrasonic sensor on the left often does not show anything to my left, even though I can look around to blind spot and see there is a car there... like maybe the ultrasonic sensors are not as great as we wish they were. (I know they are at least working at low speeds, as they constantly warn me about items next to the car in my garage...) - they don't seem up to the task of reliably showing you there is something in your blind spot a highway speeds. (Maybe this works in some vehicles, but it doesn't seem to in mine). Therefore, I check blind spot manually before initiating an AP lane change. I would recommend this practice be used by everyone until sensors, software, and cameras are improved.

 

[gopassgas]

My only question is: Did the car make any warning chime as the distance to the detected car decreased? I understand the AP is disabling the lane assistance feature for auto lane changes, but short of preventing the lane change, surely it still warns of impending collision.

 

[Nosken]

AP2 cars will be able to use at least 5 of the 8 cameras to assess blind spot situations in the future.

 

[u00mem9]

Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.

Yes, when the software is done. It's not done. In fact, it's not even close.

 

[RAW84]

Read my post above yours. There are situations where auto-lane change will not initiate the lane change because it has detected other cars, but you cannot rely on this:

1. There is no guarantee that the ultrasonic sensors will detect all vehicles. They're famous for not detecting motorcycles, bicycles, trucks (due to their height, the sensor sees the empty space underneath the truck), and vehicles that due to size or position may be further than 6-8 feet away.

2. AP only checks the conditions at the start of the lane change, it does not monitor the sensors during the lane change. Combine this with the high latency (up to 1-2 seconds) of the ultrasonic sensors, and you can have what the sensors consider a safe condition at the initiation of the lane change, only to have the situation deteriorate to unsafe conditions well before you've moved into the next lane.

As such, the ability of auto lane change to prevent a side collision should only be considered an emergency safety feature, similar to automatic emergency braking or side collision avoidance, and not be relied upon.

Yes, I agree that the driver is always responsible. I just wanted to clarify your assertion that AP1 wasn't designed to determine that the lane change is safe, because it was, and Tesla touted that it was. It does make an attempt to determine that the lane change is safe, even tho that attempt is not good enough to be relied solely upon.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

It does make an attempt to determine that the lane change is safe

I would not phrase it that way. It's not determining if the lane change is safe. It has some safety checks that attempt to mitigate driver error.

 

[RAW84]

I would not phrase it that way. It's not determining if the lane change is safe. It has some safety checks that attempt to mitigate driver error.

Tesla phrased it that way, tho.

 

[Doubletap67]

So what's the value of auto lane change other than as a novelty? If it's not safer or more controlled than manual change why would I use it?

 

[liuping]

So what's the value of auto lane change other than as a novelty? If it's not safer or more controlled than manual change why would I use it?

It save turning off autopilot just to change lanes. I use it all the time, as long as the adjacent lane is clear.

 

[Doubletap67]

It save turning off autopilot just to change lanes. I use it all the time, as long as the adjacent lane is clear.

Ah, good point, hadn't thought of that.

 

[NastyNate]

the car that honked at you was going faster than you at time of lane change