Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Autocross- SCCA EV-X Class vs. SS

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
TBH, I'm not sure it's unexpected. In general, stiffer setup is better for smooth surfaces, but results in less grip on bumpy ones due to less compliance.
Additionally, a lot of static camber + tires that need to be warmed up to grip could mean less grip before tires are up to temps.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Lindenwood
Down to 8 :(
One Tesla went to XS.

Which reminds me: what's the consensus, rear camber+toe arms = potentially protestable in EVX? I'm thinking I could use more rear camber for higher-speed national courses, But I don't want to lower further to get that camber.
Yes, toe arms knock you out of EVX. But just how much camber are you wanting? I'm at 2.8 in the rear with plenty of toe adjustment left. And I'm also probably higher in the rear than most.
I don't remember what you said your RW setup was, but I'm on helpers as low as it will go. I'd have to pull the helpers to go lower.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: superflyrolla
Just saw the build on the car that moved to XS. That's got a full track setup. It wasn't in EVX trim.
He's running -4.5 camber up front and -3.5 in the rear with 305 squared on 19x11s. He's got pretty much every piece of UP suspension available with custom Essex brakes all around. 4pt cage with UP seats and harnesses. Wouldn't surprise me if he's got a LSD in the rear too.
 
1) Something doesn't add up to me. Can you set the Sports to your previous height and then get a full alignment? Maybe you just have too much static camber no matter the tires.

2) If that doesn't do it, ask MPP for advice...

3) Just how rough and bumpy is this particular ramp?
1) I did have an alignment to verify my previous settings and measurement capabilities, and have adjusted from there. That said, I have the same static camber as before, and everyone else racing is running similar camber values (3+f and 2+r).

2) I did ask them, but didn’t get anything conclusive.

3) I don’t want you to think I’m bombing over cobblestones at 60mph :p . I just wanted to be clear that this isn’t a newly-paved racing surface in case there was some unspoken understanding that I missed (which doesn’t seem to be the case). Still, there are sections of my closest road course that are this rough and I was able to turn much harder than I have been able to since the swap to Sports.

The only other thing I can think of is static toe: I am curious if the stiffer setup needs different settings since it now rolls / squats / dives less and therefore dynamic toe under the same forces doesn’t change as much. Still, 0/0 shouldn’t be so far out that I am seeing such drastic reductions in traction.

Of note, I did swap in the Compression Rod Bearings at the same time, but have them set at the minimum increase in caster.
 
@Lindenwood Well if you do swap back to the Comfort's I'm interested to learn if that brings back your old cornering speeds!

Did you get the new setup to feel pretty neutral on breakaway yet, or is the front still clearly losing grip first? I'd want to sort out the balance before swapping back to the old coilovers.

Besides that I'm at a loss, and I have no useful experience for this situation. Cornering got strictly better on all pavement conditions when I went straight from stock to firmer Redwood Performance Sport, in fact the worse the pavement the bigger the improvement, but stock damping was so bad I don't think that says anything about swapping for a stiffer like-kind suspension.

I recall at least one forum member who has a Model 3 on MPP Sport and another on MPP Comfort. Might be worth asking their experiences and thoughts, especially if they've run the same tires on both at once.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lindenwood
@Lindenwood Well if you do swap back to the Comfort's I'm interested to learn if that brings back your old cornering speeds!

Did you get the new setup to feel pretty neutral on breakaway yet, or is the front still clearly losing grip first? I'd want to sort out the balance before swapping back to the old coilovers.

Besides that I'm at a loss, and I have no useful experience for this situation. Cornering got strictly better on all pavement conditions when I went straight from stock to firmer Redwood Performance Sport, in fact the worse the pavement the bigger the improvement, but stock damping was so bad I don't think that says anything about swapping for a stiffer like-kind suspension.

I recall at least one forum member who has a Model 3 on MPP Sport and another on MPP Comfort. Might be worth asking their experiences and thoughts, especially if they've run the same tires on both at once.
Yeah, the front is definitely breaking away first, whereas before with this alignment (including the stiffer rear bar!) it tended to be pretty neutral and very dependent on throttle position if I didn’t overtly upset the car.

Oh, and it is only about 0.3” lower than before (about 1.3” below stock vs 1”). I am quite certain I am not on the bump stops in this corner example, and I actually slightly reduced camber (by about a tenth) compared to previous alignment.
 
This past weekend was the Packwod National tour. Both myself and Gearcruncher were there as well as Bruce. Bruce has previously ran 3-4 tours on the west coast as well as the spring Nationals and handily won all of them. This one wasn't too much different. I'll tell my side of the event, I'm sure GC will be along shortly to add more.
Also, just incase anyone isn't familiar with SCCA National Tours, you get 3 runs per day, different courses each day, and the times are added together.

Bruce, GC and myself were all pretty much prepped the same. Bruce was on all MPP components with SuperSport springs on RE71RS. GC has non-MPP KWs on A052s, and myself with RW Ohlins, their HPDE springs and RE71RS.

Event started well enough. It was cool and low overcast, and we were in the first run group. We ran right after each other so we didn't know each other's results until all 3 of us were done.
My first run went OK until the end when I tried to stay on the power thru an offset leading to the finish. With not enough heat in the tires, I plowed right thru a set of cones. Raw time would have put me up by 6/10ths, so I was optimistic for future runs.
2nd run was better since I didn't cone it away, but was only faster by 0.15s. Not exactly what I wanted, but was happy when I heard both Bruce and GC coned their runs. Felt like it was finally getting some heat in the tires.
3rd run I was sitting at the line and saw Bruce take off. I could tell he was on a flyer. I took off and did ok for the first half, but on a sharp right I carried too much speed and pushed into a cone. Still thinking about it, a couple gates later, I tagged another. Pretty much gave uo on the rest of the run. Ended up raw timing 0.002 faster than my second run. I had mid 48sec runs prior, and as I went thru the gate, I knew that a mid/high 47sec was possible if I hadn't screwed up.
And it was confirmed when I parked and found our Bruce's flyer put him 9/10ths faster than me. GC finished just behind me by a 1/10th.
First day hindsight.... I massively overdrove the course. What upset me more was I knew it after the first run and didn't learn from it. I kept doing it. I dont know that it would have been enough to beat Bruce the first day, but it would have been closer.

2nd day started with heavy overcast and cold temps. Taking the learnings from the previous day, I made sure I didn't overdrive the car. The run went well with no heat in the tires, and I was pretty happy with it. Unfortunately I was 0.15sec behind Bruce, and GC was a tenth behind me.
2nd run, went faster, no cones and saw opportunities for more speed. Felt pretty good till I found out Bruce was 7/10ths faster. That meant I was 1.6sec behind him for the event. Not good at all. Also found out GC was 3/10ths quicker, which bumped him up to 2nd for the event. Well, I guess there's always hero 3rd run hopes.
3rd run... good launch, faster where I thought I could be, no cones, felt faster. Then I get across the line.... 0.025 slower? WTH??
I look at the times and all 3 of us went slower, even though we all felt like we drove faster. As it turns out, the entire course got slower between the 2nd and 3rd runs. A slight cold front pushed in and affected the entire run groups 3rd runs. About 20min later it started raining slighty.

Weekend recap, finally met GC and Bruce. Bruce is a fast man with plenty of knowledgeable race support behind him. You could tell he's dedicated going all out this year to try to win Nationals in Sept.
It was good to meet you GC, and hopefully you'll make it to Nats too.

For my Tesla... it's tough because it's mostly my DD. It needs even stiffer springs than the 11k/13k its running, but then I'll really be sacrificing more comfort than I care to. We will see. I'll do Nats with what I have, but may switch to MPP COs with custom rates and valving. Also want to see how the Teslas do in the different classes. We would have dominated XS as we were prepped, and there's still a bit more we could do for XS. LSDs, cut fenders, custom suspensions, 335s....
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20230710-150748_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20230710-150748_Chrome.jpg
    184.3 KB · Views: 80
  • 20230709_094559.jpg
    20230709_094559.jpg
    678.7 KB · Views: 59
  • 20230709_094617.jpg
    20230709_094617.jpg
    681.6 KB · Views: 56
@Lindenwood Well if you do swap back to the Comfort's I'm interested to learn if that brings back your old cornering speeds!

Did you get the new setup to feel pretty neutral on breakaway yet, or is the front still clearly losing grip first? I'd want to sort out the balance before swapping back to the old coilovers.

Besides that I'm at a loss, and I have no useful experience for this situation. Cornering got strictly better on all pavement conditions when I went straight from stock to firmer Redwood Performance Sport, in fact the worse the pavement the bigger the improvement, but stock damping was so bad I don't think that says anything about swapping for a stiffer like-kind suspension.

I recall at least one forum member who has a Model 3 on MPP Sport and another on MPP Comfort. Might be worth asking their experiences and thoughts, especially if they've run the same tires on both at once.
Hrmm.

So, I initially swapped just the fronts back to comforts. Same grip, though this time I could feel the Nannie’s acting more on the front end.

What?! Between having Sport coils in the rear AND a stiffer rear bar on what used to be a pretty neutral setup, it definitely shouldn’t be losing the front first.

However, I have taken the chance on running the same curve in Track Mode a few times (with the stability assist still pretty high since I don’t actually want to avoid careening off into a ditch if I can avoid it :p ), and now it cornered as before.

Therefore, pending further iterations, the only two unconfirmed variables so far do not include the sport coils themselves. I have now tried multiple combinations of coils, damper settings, tires, and alignments with no change until I took the turn into track mode. (I hadn’t considered this before because it requires manually driving for like 6-8 miles prior to the off-ramp…and what am I, poor?)

Track mode seems to be the only thing that shook off this funk.

1) Is it possible a recent software update made the stability assist much more intrusive as lateral acceleration hit ~0.9g outside of track mode?

2) Is it possible my new Compression Rod bearings affected how the stability assistant sensors detected breakaway?

IMG_3819.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Ive heard through the grapevine that something happened.. Do you have any insight? Am wondering if there is something my region should be doing or if it was a pure accident/unavoidable :/

edit: Thoughts and prayers out to everyone impacted
Hearing 2 people died. A driver and someone on foot. Hopefully some info about what went wrong comes out so that we can all learn what could have been done differently. The SCCA loves to sweep incidents under the rug and give a false sense of safety to new drivers, all forms of motorsports are inherently dangerous :(.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Rodney!
Hearing 2 people died. A driver and someone on foot. Hopefully some info about what went wrong comes out so that we can all learn what could have been done differently. The SCCA loves to sweep incidents under the rug and give a false sense of safety to new drivers, all forms of motorsports are inherently dangerous :(.

Lets please wait till official news comes out instead of making reckless accusations and assumptions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rodney!