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AutoExpress UK reviews the Model S

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by twinklejet, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. twinklejet

    twinklejet Member

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  2. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    UK pricing estimated to begin at £82,500, thats $128,934 via XE.com. Blimey, thats me out totally I can't believe that is really the RHD cost, or have I mis-read the article?

    I am so close to a UK deposit (£4000 = $6251), but that purchase price is way beyond ridiculous IMO :(
    Best
    Dan43
     
  3. pgiralt

    pgiralt Active Member

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    Maybe that price is for the P85+ they tested? Sounds awfully high for the starting price of an S60.
     
  4. Lokolo

    Lokolo Member

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    That is my worry with GenIII, a full out GenIII I am expecting to cost around $55k, which equates to £35k. That I can deal with. However, I doubt they are going to be that generous and I can see it costing more towards £45k, way out of my budget.

    The lack of knowing how much the Model S costs will be one of the biggest reasons why we have a lack of reservations.
     
  5. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    Has anyone in the USA paid $128,000 for their Model S, all tricked out and before any rebates, as in the total purchase price being $128,000 including all sales taxes and before any rebates?
    What is the average Euro pricing I wonder per model as that would give a decent clue to UK pricing. If it is that steep it will never get any sort of foothold in this country outside the very committed and determined, and well heeled .......
    Best
    Dan43
     
  6. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    The $128,000 includes 20% VAT right? So that is $102400 without VAT.
    If you buy a fully loaded P85+ in California it is $118,970 before tax. Add 9% state sales tax and it is $129,677

    Its impossible to make comparisons without knowing the options, as the pre-tax, pre-rebate price ranges from $69,700 to $118,970 in the US depending on the options.
     
  7. PV4EV

    PV4EV Member

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    If the car is manufactured in the USA, and sold new in the UK, I believe the UK price has to have 10% car import duty applied, then 20% VAT on top of that, plus a whole list of small incremental bureaucratic registration charges. In other words, the UK cost could be the USA price + 32% or so, plus shipping. Rule of thumb is about +36% overall. I've moved cars from USA to UK before now, and shipping worked out at under £2k, probably less per car if there's 500 on ship …

    However, I think I read somewhere that Tesla has opened a new "Manufacturing centre" at Tilburg, Netherlands. If so, that facility might be doing "final-assembly" of cars from the USA for the EU and can therefore get around the 10% import duty - I think.

    EM is on record as saying he doesn’t want to rip-off customers outside the USA, and Tesla will only be charging the USA prices plus shipping, duties and taxes for each country.

    Personally speaking, I've reluctantly resigned myself to expecting a £90k+ price for a loaded P85+. But don’t forget there are some excellent tax benefits for pure EV's, such as the ability to write down 100% of the car price against corp-tax in year one, even if you're a one man company, which is effectively a discount on the price of between 20% and 26% depending on tax bands.

    I'm also curious as to what Tesla UK are going to do about part-ex values against a new Model S …


    Prior to buying my roadster I used to drive a 'performance' car with a 0-60 of around 4.5 seconds, but it only did about 18 mpg average. I bought the Roadster for many reasons, but importantly I wanted to always have a car with enjoyable acceleration and I am really not bothered about being able to go more than 100mph or over as its a waste of engineering on cars that claim to do 220mph etc. Since driving my Roadster, my petrol consumption has dropped to zero, saving me a whopping £5,000 a year in petrol bills, and my electricity bill for charging has only increased by a minuscule £250 a year for the same yearly mileage. Plus I no longer have to pay £490 in road tax, or any congestion charges going into London. Extrapolate all that over 5 years and the "savings" from not running an ICE will be around £35,000 + £20k in corp-taxes reduction, for a total saving of about £55k VS running an ICE car of similar performance, like an M5 :biggrin:

    Run a P85 for 10 years and it will pay for itself entirely.

    And based on experience the M5 will cost £X0,000 in repairs and depreciate through the floor quicker than almost anything else …

    Of course, if you just want to drive around as economically as possibly, just go and buy a 10 year old Audi A6 TDi for £2/3/4k, and it will do 50mpg all day long, with modest running costs.


    But despite all the above, I still really really want a Model S because of everything it represents !
     
  8. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    Hi PV4EV,

    All true, plus we have a £5000 Government plug-in grant. Plus the VAT claimed back plus the net cost can be written down agaisnt any business which will be 20-30% depending on circumstances.

    The £85,000 asking price, if you consider everything that can be claimed, would be a final price of about £50-54,000 again depending on your circumstances, which for a fully tricked out P85+ doesn't seem too bad. (£54,000 = $84,325) if you have a business and can do all the claims.

    I am still keen, but maybe for the lesser value 85 standard model :)

    Seeing the post from chris.c Tesla Motors England I have to admit I am getting an itch that will probably need scratching.....
    Best
    Dan43
     
  9. sp4rk

    sp4rk Banned

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    So typical.
    One of the dichotomy s of expat living in the USA.
    Here in the USA, the car is relatively inexpensive (compared to £), say $100,000. But you cannot drive it. Cop cars are EVERYWHERE just waiting for you. Average speed limit 55MPH. Yawn.
    In the UK, you pay the price in pounds.
    But you can DRIVE it. As long as you know where the (real) nanny cams, excuse me, gantry cameras are over the motorway, you can "fly". 70MPH "minimum", more like ... well ...
    Which would you rather?
     
  10. Alan

    Alan Member

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    Hi Dan,

    Can you claim the VAT back as a company car? I thought the rules only allowed that if it is used 100% for business purposes - eg drive home once in it and you are not allowed?

    Thx
    Alan
     
  11. PV4EV

    PV4EV Member

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    #11 PV4EV, Aug 17, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013


    Alan is correct.

    I doubt very much that you can claim the VAT part back unless you can prove beyond all doubt that you use the car 100.000% for business purposes with absolutely no element of personal use !

    UK Roadster owners did not benefit from the £5k EV grant, and I'm not sure if this will be applicable to Model S either.


    There are a few test cases for trying to claim the 20% VAT back, the vast majority of which fail and the nice people from HMRC win. One case where an individual with a Lamborghini did overcome this is illustrated in the link below. However, HMRC in their usual style fought back on appeal in the high court and won. The excuse for claiming the vat is laughable ... !!

    Purple super-car an untaxable asset for a top fag man - Telegraph



    As a final thought, I *think* there are some interesting things you can do with finance and claiming the interest back through a company, and some other things to do with zero emission vehicles and benefit in kind calculations, but this is all getting a bit extreme.

    An accountant skilled in the black art of tax-allowances should be able to sort this out for you . .
     
  12. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    Thanks guys,
    Will dig a little, having run a few businesses now I should know better, but the electric car ownership has thrown a few curve balls, for example the UK Govt. have extended the plug-in allowance until 2014, it stipulates that the car has to be able to be plugged in and use electric power. Other incentives are there, I will check, but certainly the 100% writing down allowance in first year is applicable.
    Best
    Dan43
     
  13. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    EU prices in their sites is helping also. 60kwh basic coming in around £64K and £73K for an 85kwh basic model via the Danish site converting DKK which includes their VAT.
     
  14. PV4EV

    PV4EV Member

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    Just had a look at the EU configurator site and it does show a price in euro's but there's the dreaded asterisk, which leads to this statement at the base of the site :-



    * 1 Price includes pickup from a Tesla location in The Netherlands. Price does not include any taxes or fees.



    Now, unless I have got the wrong end of the stick, the price is therefore quoted in Euros WITHOUT VAT. Which feels like a kick in The Nether regions.

    I've just spec'ed out a modest car, and the price came out at a hefty 87,000 Euros. Convert that to GBP and its £74,400. Add the dreaded VAT and its back to £89,200 … (= $ 140,000 .... Ouch :mad: ).

    However, I'm not convinced I need to splash out a further £10,000 for 21" wheels and the "+" package ( Total now = $155,000 = bluddy hell :scared: ).

    Last time I looked at the cost of 21" replacement tyres, they were considerably more than 19"s and hard to locate.



    Maybe I should wait for a 450 mile ESS / PEM upgrade / beefed up motor for my roadster … !!!
     
  15. Dan43

    Dan43 Member

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    Daily Mail today has the Model S in a supplement as an up and coming future car, claims from £55,000 in the short overview.
    Dan43
     
  16. Mark77a

    Mark77a Member

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  17. arg

    arg Member

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    The BIK allowance looks very straightforward and highly valuable (though obviously I haven't tried it yet) - the rate of BIK (added to your income before calculating tax) for company cars is zero for electric cars.

    Unfortunately, the zero rate is currently due to expire in 2015: from the 2015/16 tax year it switches to 9% of notional list price - so with likely model S delivery dates, we look to be getting only one year of the zero BIK allowance.

    I've always owned my own cars rather than buying through my company - as I reckoned the BIK charge wiped out most of the tax advantage of doing so and avoided a lot of hassle (specially back in the days when you had to prove how much of your mileage was business use). Also I tend to keep my cars a long while, so the original-list-price based BIK is punitive.

    Possibly with a Model S the best strategy is to buy it through the company, keep it for a couple of years, then sell it to myself for fair market value - having taken advantage of the capital allowances and zero BIK during the initial high depreciation period, then avoid the disproportionate BIK in later years when the car isn't worth much (albeit with a big tax hit in the year of conversion).

    But this really needs accurate Model S list price to work out the numbers.
     

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