Automatic creep makes it impossible to come to a smooth stop

[Kipernicus]

the complex "quick, hit the clutch" maneuver necessary when stopping is another matter, one I'll be glad to get rid of with an electric car.

Me too - there have been a few times while driving my wife's car (auto) that my left foot instinctively went to press in the clutch and it hit the brake instead for a very jarring jolt. Wife not amused.

As an ActiveE & MINI E driver, I've not found myself hovering over the accelerator at junctions, unless the road is very very flat, the car rolls around anyway so, the foot is usually resting on the brake. I've watched others do the save.

MPT I take it from your post that the ActiveE and MiniE have no creep?

 

[eledille]

I guess it depends on the threshold speed where regen is faded out. You're right - this would be a workable solution if the threshold speed is high enough that you can't coast to a stop.

My EV fades regen out so smoothly that it's impossible to say when it's completely gone without a clamp ammmeter around the battery cable. It starts to fade out at approximately 20 km/h and is completely gone somewhere between 10 and 5 km/h. The car will then continue to roll. A simple reduction gear has extremely low drag, I would guess that I need 50 to 100 m to bring it to a stop without braking. It certainly takes too much time to be practical, and if there is even the slightest bit of uphill it will start rolling backwards unless I apply the brakes.

Removing creep when depressing the brake pedal would almost solve the problem, except that I think creep is scary, dangerous and counterintuitive. Why not have the car select 'P' instead, after say five or ten seconds of standing still without brakes applied? If Tesla added creep to force drivers to keep their foot on the brake pedal, then I should think this solution would be better.

This also changes the behaviour of the driver, you tend to do what the car "wants you to do". Fading out regen encourages early deceleration and letting the car roll. That's what good truck drivers do, because it requires less energy and decreases wear.

 

[de704]

Why not make in a driver controlled feature. Have it on be default for new EV drivers coming from ICEs. Those who want it off will figure out how to go through the menu and turn it off (once it's off it stays off until turned back on). Some one will also most likely share how to deactivate it with others owners wanting to do the same on TMC.

My only thought would be, would you forget your car is on and accidently graze the torque pedal when you forget to put the car in park? Just a thought.

 

[NEWDL]

I have always called this feature "idle crawl"... Wether speaking of an ICE or simulated in an EV...

 

[mpt]

MPT I take it from your post that the ActiveE and MiniE have no creep?

None; they are much smoother to drive, especially when maneuvering as a result.

One trick I like to pull the in ActiveE is to receive a passenger and, whilst they're putting on their seat belt I set off ever so slowly; they feel absolutely nothing, like a modern train, until they look up! It's quite funny, you can often see them visibly startled that we're already moving.

 

[doug]

I drive a manual, so I prefer no creep. As far has not rolling back on hills, that's what the three pedal shuffle is for, or just use the hand brake.
Creep is only good for ghost riding in the East Bay.

Check out this vid at the 5 minute mark for a creep fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTY3WS1C_g#t=305s

 

[mpt]

Nice find! Very funny.

 

[qwk]

No creep here also. I have an automatic with no creep and it is awesome.

 

[mpt]

I think that having a car without creep significantly increases your desire for no creep. First time we drove the MINI E we were instantly polarized towards no creep.

 

[shark2k]

I also drive a manual and don't want creep. Besides, as MPT already mentioned elsewhere, BMW has dealt with the forgetting you have the car in drive and getting out of the car. I believe he said it shut it off when you have it in drive and get off the seat.

-Shark2k

 

[MitchL]

I've read this whole thread trying to figure out what "creep" means to me -- since I don't(yet) own an EV, and 5 minutes driving a Leaf does not count as experience, I'm not sure what to think.

I'm used to both standard and automatic transmissions -- in heavy traffic, I like creep from an automatic, and would prefer not to keep shifting between pedals. I also like that the brake light will mostly stay ON while I'm creeping - if I'm only moving a foot or two, I don't want the guy behind me to get the idea that I'm accelerating.

However, I totally appreciate the idea that unless I press the "Go" pedal, we will in fact _not_ go.

Still, I wonder about that brake light. Unless I am moving or am just about to start moving, I'd like the brake light ON, so I'll hold the brake.

Those of you that say "Standard transmissions don't creep" - true - but on a level road, do you take your foot off the brake at a stop light? I don't..., so no matter how I come to a stop, once I get there I'll definitely have my foot on the brake, and will hold it there, so does the creep really matter?


I guess I'd quickly get used to no creep - and I might even form some deep appreciation for it, but right now, without any other experience, I actually will expect my Model S to do it (it's the way expectations are wired, and undoubtably the reason why it's there in the first place).

How does the brake light work on EVs that don't creep, or when you're rapidly decelerating via regen? - does the light come on even though your foot isn't on the pedal? Should it?

/Mitch.

 

[djp]

How does the brake light work on EVs that don't creep, or when you're rapidly decelerating via regen? - does the light come on even though your foot isn't on the pedal? Should it?

/Mitch.

Yes, for North American Roadsters the brake light comes on during strong regen. European Roadsters don't use the brake light during regen due to an odd regulation that says brake lights can only be on if the brakes are engaged, and European Roadsters have weaker regen to compensate.

 

[JRP3]

Check out this vid at the 5 minute mark for a creep fail: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTY3WS1C_g#t=305s

Great "safety" feature

 

[howabout2]

One trick I like to pull the in ActiveE is to receive a passenger and, whilst they're putting on their seat belt I set off ever so slowly; they feel absolutely nothing, like a modern train, until they look up! It's quite funny, you can often see them visibly startled that we're already moving.

mpt, it's funny you should mention that. I didn't do that specific thing, but I remember absolutely loving the unbelievable precision control that the no-creep MINI E provided. I remember telling people, "I'll bet you I can make the car move one millimeter forward. One millimeter!" (One ping only!) Everyone said, "no, that's impossible." In any car with creep, there's absolutely no way to do it. And yet, in the MINI E there was such linear precision in the accelerator that you could start moving with absolutely zero stutter, zero commotion. It was as smooth as silk.

Like you say, it was like a modern train. I did tiny acceleration motions so much that my passengers sometimes got on my case because they would get carsick--something about the mixed signals they were getting from their senses.

As others have said, the ability to come to a stop with zero--and I mean zero--stutter was also such a delight. Ever since turning in the MINI E, when I drive my wife's automatic ICE, I feel a twinge of frustration when the brakes do that annoying shake of the vehicle as the friction of the brakes finally seizes the calipers.

Frankly, the no-creep total precision acceleration was one of my favorite things about the MINI E. I miss that and it sounds like I'll continue to miss it with the Model S.

 

[vfx]

...
One trick I like to pull the in ActiveE is to receive a passenger and, whilst they're putting on their seat belt I set off ever so slowly; they feel absolutely nothing, like a modern train, until they look up! It's quite funny, you can often see them visibly startled that we're already moving.

I like this. Too bad a Roadster could only do this on an uphill slope.

Creep should be in car setup with seat, radio settings and steering wheel position.

 

[Lloyd]

Creep should be user selectable. I voted NO creeps

 

[vfx]

Changing my wording.

I like this. Too bad a Roadster could only do this on an uphill slope.

Creep should be in the driver's setup screen with other options like seat position, radio settings and steering wheel height.

 

[Mycroft]

According to my last trip to the store and the maintenance mode, they're definitely looking at the ability to disable the automatic creep "feature". In fact, removing the creep improves the energy efficiency.

 

[Robert.Boston]

According to my last trip to the store and the maintenance mode, they're definitely looking at the ability to disable the automatic creep "feature". In fact, removing the creep improves the energy efficiency.

+1 Good news, indeed.

 

[Lloyd]

Maybe you just need some of this