Autonomous Car Progress

[rxlawdude]

Waymo has cameras, radar and lidar that can see 3 football fields deep in all 360 degrees. Waymo would be able to reliably detect the cross traffic in Chuck's scenarios and then it would just be a matter of going when the path is safe to proceed. So yes, I believe Waymo could handle Chuck's unprotected left turn scenario reliably. I see no reason why they couldn't.

Impatiently waiting for any evidence that Waymo could handle that intersection better than Tesla's current beta. Your description above again sounds a bit like Waymo cheerleading.

So, let's see Waymo's behavior on anything approaching the complexity of Chuck's problem intersection (unprotected left from 2 lane street onto four lane, divided highway with busy cross traffic moving >40mph). I'll wait.

 

[Bladerskb]

Impatiently waiting for any evidence that Waymo could handle that intersection better than Tesla's current beta. Your description above again sounds a bit like Waymo cheerleading.

So, let's see Waymo's behavior on anything approaching the complexity of Chuck's problem intersection (unprotected left from 2 lane street onto four lane, divided highway with busy cross traffic moving >40mph). I'll wait.

Well one uses SOTA multi modal prediction models that they have been improving, the other have been using basic c++ code and simplistic models until very recently on their v1 of a real prediction model.

Clearly the one with the basic c++ code and simplistic models wins.

Perfect Tesla fan logic.

 

[Terminator857]

Perfect Tesla fan logic.

Some of us have put the more obnoxious folks on ignore. You might want to also if you don't want to be unwittingly boosting their noise.

 

[rxlawdude]

Some of us have put the more obnoxious folks on ignore. You might want to also if you don't want to be unwittingly boosting their noise.

Unfortunately, even posts from the ignored, if in response to one's post, are visible.

 

[Knightshade]

There are 3 main categories in AV algorithm development.

From the rules you just made up apparently

Perception - ~100% ML

Yes, Tesla is using this for perception.

Prediction - ~100% ML

Nope!

only perception in Teslas system.

As you already had explained to you previously.

Driving Policy (aka Path Planning) - While 0% at Tesla, its anywhere from ~0%, 25%, 50% or 100%, etc at other SDC companies.

Weird you appear aware Tesla doesn't use ML for this and yet include it on your list....

For example Waymo uses a hybrid planner made up of ML and non ML to generate a trajectory that satisfies various constraints. They showed that their ML models for planning are evolving and over taking their non ML parts.

Mobileye uses a full reinforcement learning model to generate trajectories.

That's great.

Tesla does not.

The reason you are so ignorant is because you refuse to learn.

Dude, you're the one who keeps getting the most basic facts wrong about how Teslas system actually works.

Heck Elon just said they are at their first version of multi model prediction and its not even fully implemented yet.

So... you DO know they aren't using ML for this stuff in the current system--- yet kept screaming about how the thing they don't even use wasn't at 99.99999%?


Do you even read your own posts my dude?

 

[Doggydogworld]

So, let's see Waymo's behavior on anything approaching the complexity of Chuck's problem intersection (unprotected left from 2 lane street onto four lane, divided highway with busy cross traffic moving >40mph). I'll wait.

I've seen plenty of lefts that were not protected from oncoming traffic, but they were all protected from cross traffic. Maybe @JJRicks can chime in if I've missed some.

I agree Chuck's side-street-onto-four-lane scenario is harder (though he's also shown problems going the other direction, which Waymo handles fine). Left turns with cross traffic would usually happen coming out of parking lots or after rider pickup in a residential area. But Waymo seems to route to the right in these situations unless there's a stoplight or 4-way stop sign.

 

[mark95476]

Some updates from the competition:

MB's DrivePilot appears really limited. <40 mph in perfect conditions on premapped roads.

Tesla FSD Beta vs Mercedes-Benz DrivePilot comparison shows big difference in tech

Tesla typically catches flak among critics because its Autopilot system and FSD Beta are still classified as SAE Level 2 driver-assist systems. This means that while the vehicles are able to handle most driving tasks, drivers must have their hands at the steering wheel so they could take over...

www.teslarati.com

MB and Bosch also recently ended their ADAS/robotaxi partnership.

Bosch, Daimler end joint robotaxi project

Technology group Bosch and vehicle manufacturer Daimler are in the process of winding up the joint robotaxi development project Athena. Both companies point to milestones achieved, but technical problems may also have played a role.

www.eenewsautomotive.com

 

[Doggydogworld]

Some updates from the competition:

MB's DrivePilot appears really limited. <40 mph in perfect conditions on premapped roads.

Tesla FSD Beta vs Mercedes-Benz DrivePilot comparison shows big difference in tech

Tesla typically catches flak among critics because its Autopilot system and FSD Beta are still classified as SAE Level 2 driver-assist systems. This means that while the vehicles are able to handle most driving tasks, drivers must have their hands at the steering wheel so they could take over...

www.teslarati.com

Dumb article, even by Teslarati standards. MB Level 2 features are not in any way limited to 60 kph on certain highways. MB's Level 3 feature, which allows drivers to legally read a book, answer emails or watch a movie, is indeed very limited today. But Tesla does not offer this feature on any roads at any speeds.

Furthermore, highway traffic jams are not rare. They happen every weekday morning and afternoon in almost every major city. Drive Pilot could give a busy commuting exec 5-10 hours per week of productive time that he currently wastes stuck in traffic. That's a huge and extremely valuable benefit.

 

[mark95476]

MB's L3 system isn't legal, at least not in the US. Has MB's L3 system been deployed anywhere?

Tesla's AP drives me on virtually any freeway and surface street in variable weather conditions. It's been like this since I got my Tesla > 1 year ago. People have been exploiting the nag counter for a long time. Resting my arm while holding the steering wheel is enough.

Dumb article, even by Teslarati standards. MB Level 2 features are not in any way limited to 60 kph on certain highways. MB's Level 3 feature, which allows drivers to legally read a book, answer emails or watch a movie, is indeed very limited today. But Tesla does not offer this feature on any roads at any speeds.

Furthermore, highway traffic jams are not rare. They happen every weekday morning and afternoon in almost every major city. Drive Pilot could give a busy commuting exec 5-10 hours per week of productive time that he currently wastes stuck in traffic. That's a huge and extremely valuable benefit.

 

[Knightshade]

MB's L3 system isn't legal, at least not in the US.

Really?

What nation-wide law, specifically, would it be violating?

 

[Dan D.]

MB's L3 system isn't legal, at least not in the US. Has MB's L3 system been deployed anywhere?

Tesla's AP drives me on virtually any freeway and surface street in variable weather conditions. It's been like this since I got my Tesla > 1 year ago. People have been exploiting the nag counter for a long time. Resting my arm while holding the steering wheel is enough.

AP doesn't drive you anywhere. It is a driver assist feature. Level 2. Period.

 

[diplomat33]

Mobileye will be at IAA Mobility 2021:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427608644691152938

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

AP doesn't drive you anywhere. It is a driver assist feature. Level 2. Period.

A good Level 2 system becomes Level 4 as soon as the driver decides it is.

 

[diplomat33]

A good Level 2 system becomes Level 4 as soon as the driver decides it is.

L2 and L4 are fundamentally different systems. Put simply, L2 is a system that can't do all driving tasks. So it needs a driver to perform some tasks. L4 is a system that can do all driving tasks, including fallback, but has a limited ODD. So L4 does not need a driver to perform any driving tasks when it is inside it's ODD. So no, the driver can't just decide that L2 is now L4 whenever they want.

 

[diplomat33]

Pretty informative interview with the CEO of Argo AI where he discusses autonomous driving and what Argo is up to:

Meet the self-driving brains working with Volkswagen and Ford

Argo AI’s CEO is a realist when it comes to self-driving tech.

www.theverge.com

 

[jimm01]

Pretty informative interview with the CEO of Argo AI where he discusses autonomous driving and what Argo is up to:

Meet the self-driving brains working with Volkswagen and Ford

Argo AI’s CEO is a realist when it comes to self-driving tech.

www.theverge.com

Thanks, it led me to here:

Ground Truth

GROUND TRUTH is an inside look at the development and deployment of self-driving technology from the test benches to simulation labs, and from closed test tracks to city streets.

groundtruthautonomy.com

 

[diplomat33]

Thanks, it led me to here:

Ground Truth

GROUND TRUTH is an inside look at the development and deployment of self-driving technology from the test benches to simulation labs, and from closed test tracks to city streets.

groundtruthautonomy.com

Yeah. Ground Truth is a news/opinion website for autonomous driving that is published by Argo AI.

 

[mark95476]

Manufacturers need to go through the NHTSA, US DOT, and other federal bodies for safety and what not here. Remember how TESLAQ and the other FUDsters had this wet dream about how the yoke on refreshed MS/MY was going to be blocked by federal authorities? That didn't happen and the yoke is shipping. Basically the same thing happens in other countries.

"At this time, NHTSA cannot determine if the steering wheel meets Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. We will be reaching out to the automaker for more information."

I'd hazard to guess that CAs DMV and Arizona are at the forefront for state level. No manufacturers have announced L3 availability here, not even MB.

Really?

What nation-wide law, specifically, would it be violating?

 

[diplomat33]

Manufacturers need to go through the NHTSA, US DOT, and other federal bodies for safety and what not here. Remember how TESLAQ and the other FUDsters had this wet dream about how the yoke on refreshed MS/MY was going to be blocked by federal authorities? That didn't happen and the yoke is shipping. Basically the same thing happens in other countries.

"At this time, NHTSA cannot determine if the steering wheel meets Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. We will be reaching out to the automaker for more information."

I'd hazard to guess that CAs DMV and Arizona are at the forefront for state level. No manufacturers have announced L3 availability here, not even MB.

Regulations about the yoke have nothing to do with L3. The FMVSS regulates the physical components of a car like steering wheels, airbags or brakes, it does not regulate levels of autonomy. AFAIK, there are no regulations barring anyone from releasing L3 in the US.

 

[Knightshade]

Manufacturers need to go through the NHTSA, US DOT, and other federal bodies for safety and what not here

No, they do not.

None of those bodies has any requirement for pre-approval of L3 features in the US.

There's nothing, federally, preventing anyone from putting L3 vehicles on the road today.

hell, there's L4 ones on the road. Today. In the US.

I'd hazard to guess that CAs DMV and Arizona are at the forefront for state level. No manufacturers have announced L3 availability here, not even MB.

In opposite directions.

In AZ you don't have to do really anything. In CA it's heavily regulated.

That was the point. There's nothing stopping L3 from being deployed today in a number of US states, legally.

It would require changes to STATE (not federal) law in most other states.