Autonomous Car Progress

[diplomat33]

Up close video of Zoox vehicle at CES.

And more pics.

Zoox’ New Robotaxi From Up Close

Zoox, part of Amazon, also presented its new robotaxi to the public at the CES 2023, and you could even sit in it. What caught my eye were the small light sources that shine through the ceilings an…

thelastdriverlicenseholder.com

 

[Dewg]

I know this isn't cars, but thought I'd throw this out as we're talking about Zoox (Amazon). The autonomous delivery systems, both drone and ground robots, for everything from food to Amazon package delivery. It's going to be an interesting 2023 with autonomous robots driving around our cities.

 

[diplomat33]

Zeekr announces NZP released to leading customers, powered by Mobileye SuperVision, with some screenshots of the visualization for auto lane changes. The blue line looks very similar to NOA:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611585253365407745

This might be a dumb question but why call it NZP if it is SuperVision, why not just call it SuperVision?

I am guessing because Mobileye sells the tech to the OEM which in turn, can repackage it in their own UI and resell it, so the OEM gets to rename the package they sell to the customer even if the underlining stack is all Mobileye? And does this mean every OEM will have their own pet name for their ADAS and customers will have to know if the tech is actually Mobileye or something else? I guess customers will have to look for the "powered by Mobileye SuperVision" in the small print to know if the system actually uses Mobileye's tech or not?

And what does "powered by Mobileye SuperVision" mean? Does it mean the full SuperVision stack (camera vision, RSS, REM maps and all) or does it just mean they are using Mobileye eyeQ chips and maybe some of the stack? This might sound silly but we all know marketing terms can have a bunch of legal fine print behind them.

I guess I ask because as a consumer, I would not want to get "tricked" where I thought I was buying Mobileye's SuperVision system but I was really buying something else.

 

[powertoold]

Zeekr announces NZP released to leading customers, powered by Mobileye SuperVision, with some screenshots of the visualization for auto lane changes. The blue line looks very similar to NOA

Interesting, that HD map doesn't look like the REM maps at all (from Mobileye's videos).

 

[diplomat33]

Interesting, that HD map doesn't look like the REM maps at all (from Mobileye's videos).

Two possibilities that I can see:

1) Zeekr is using their own HD maps

2) It's just Zeekr's UI visualization and the actual maps underneath are Mobileye's REM maps.

I lean towards #2. The 3D buildings on the screen, which we don't see on Mobileye's videos, would suggest it is Zeekr's "FSD visualization" to look nice on the screen. And the fact that they say it is powered by Mobileye's SuperVision would suggest they are likely using RSS and REM maps since those are part of the SuperVision package. The maps we see in the Mobileye videos are likely the "raw" REM maps. It would make sense that the automaker might want to add their own UI and visualization to make it look more polished on the final consumer version.

 

[scottf200]

This might be a dumb question but why call it NZP if it is SuperVision, why not just call it SuperVision?
... I guess customers will have to look for the "powered by Mobileye SuperVision" in the small print to know if the system actually uses Mobileye's tech or not?

I would guess the 'powered by ...' is what it'll be. I saw this in a search as an example:

Zeekr and Mobileye SuperVision announcement - ZEEKR is proud to announce that the state-of-the-art driver-assist function NZP, powered by Mobileye SuperVision technology, will be available to leading customers in January 2023.

It seems they are trying to define NZP as functionality using Supervision [stack]. Most of functionality sure seems like the equiv of Tesla's NOA.

Below example text from: Zeekr 001 NZP High Speed Autonomous Pilot Assist System begins full pioneer testing in January - TechGoing

According to reports, Zeekr NZP is an assisted driving system based on high-precision maps, which can realize autonomous up and down high-speed ramps, follow-up cruise, lane changes, and intercommunication switching. At the launch conference of Zeekr 009, Zeekr once generously stated that Zeekr 009 will become the only MPV in the world to mass-produce with NZP autonomous piloting and assisted driving.

Simply put, Zeekr NZP is similar to Xpeng’s intelligent driving assistance system XNGP, an upgraded version of XPILOT and Tesla’s FSD. NZP high-speed autonomous piloting can automatically complete functions such as on-ramp, active cruise, active overtaking, and early lane change based on the navigation path on the high-speed and expressway covered by the high-precision map.
...
After the NZP function is launched, it will not only be able to recognize traffic light information, but also realize active lane change and overtaking, change lanes according to navigation, automatically cross ramps, correctly select fork roads, intelligent detour during construction, lever change lanes, and simulated environment display 7 core functions.

 

[diplomat33]

I would guess the 'powered by ...' is what it'll be. I saw this in a search as an example:


It seems they are trying to define NZP as functionality using Supervision [stack]. Most of functionality sure seems like the equiv of Tesla's NOA.

Below example text from: Zeekr 001 NZP High Speed Autonomous Pilot Assist System begins full pioneer testing in January - TechGoing

Thanks. That is helpful.

Yes, NZP looks very similar to Tesla's NOA. The big difference is that NZP is hands-off whereas Tesla's NOA is hands-on.

My main question is whether NZP is an in-house L2 system developed by Zeekr that just uses the Mobileye's eyeQ chips and vision stack but uses Zeekr's HD maps or whether NZP uses the full SuperVision stack (vision, RSS, REM maps etc) and is just limited to highways for now. I ask because as a consumer, I would want to know if "powered by SuperVision" means I am getting the real SuperVision or some in-house system that just uses parts of SuperVision.

Since it says "powered by SuperVision", I am thinking NZP uses the full SuperVision stack, just limited to highways for now. My understanding is that Mobileye is releasing SuperVision on highways first but will expand to the full ODD in future OTA updates.

EDIT: Mobileye CTO confirmed NZP does use RSS and REM maps. So it is the full SuperVision stack and the screen is just visualization, not a different map. @powertoold

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611819403070377985

 

[diplomat33]

This is not good. You would think Cruise AVs would be better than this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611402210146926606

 

[Bladerskb]

Thanks. That is helpful.

Yes, NZP looks very similar to Tesla's NOA. The big difference is that NZP is hands-off whereas Tesla's NOA is hands-on.

My main question is whether NZP is an in-house L2 system developed by Zeekr that just uses the Mobileye's eyeQ chips and vision stack but uses Zeekr's HD maps or whether NZP uses the full SuperVision stack (vision, RSS, REM maps etc) and is just limited to highways for now. I ask because as a consumer, I would want to know if "powered by SuperVision" means I am getting the real SuperVision or some in-house system that just uses parts of SuperVision.

Since it says "powered by SuperVision", I am thinking NZP uses the full SuperVision stack, just limited to highways for now. My understanding is that Mobileye is releasing SuperVision on highways first but will expand to the full ODD in future OTA updates.

EDIT: Mobileye CTO confirmed NZP does use RSS and REM maps. So it is the full SuperVision stack and the screen is just visualization, not a different map. @powertoold

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611819403070377985

Yeah it’s end to end Mobileye.

This is however different from the likes of Xpeng’s NGP, NIO’s NOP and Tesla’s NOA simply because it’s not a self contained solution created just for and confined to the highway like the others.

This would be compared to say V11 aka what Elon hypes as “single stack”.

The only other solution like this on the market is huawei’s NCA. You can see by how it changes lanes, handles dense complicated merges, construction and stopped cars/accident scene on the highway.

All things Tesla’s NOA does a poor job of.

 

[diplomat33]

More info on Zoox vehicle:

• Top speed is 75 mph but plan is for city driving
• Can go 16 hrs on a single charge
• First deployment will be Las Vegas
• Vehicle could leave closed track testing in next few months or even weeks to start driving in Las Vegas, according to rumor
• Other test areas include San Francisco Bay Area and Seattle
• Not yet optimized for disabled access but Zoox is working on it

More Details About Zoox New Robotaxi

Zoox has shared more details about its new robotaxi, which are not uninteresting. First of all, the vehicle’s top speed is 120 km/h (75 miles per hour), so it can also drive on highways. Howe…

thelastdriverlicenseholder.com

 

[Bladerskb]

Video of the Mobileye's Supervision on Highways (closed beta)

Sina Visitor System

 

[diplomat33]

Video of the Mobileye's Supervision on Highways (closed beta)

Sina Visitor System

Your link went to the main zeekr page.

Is this your video?

Sina Visitor System

It looks really good on highways.

Also, I found this post on weibo that says Zeekr is bring L4 cars to the US soon? I knew Zeekr was planning to launch in the US by Q2 2023 but I did not know about L4. Will the cars be equipped with the hardware for Mobileye Chauffeur or is that a typo and they just mean the cars will be equipped with Mobileye SuperVision?

 

[ThomasD]

Will Zoox use existing Bus Stops for pickups and drop offs? Or will it be Door to Door service

 

[diplomat33]

Will Zoox use existing Bus Stops for pickups and drop offs? Or will it be Door to Door service

We don't know at this point. If it is like other ride-hailing services like Cruise and Waymo, it will be "door to door".

 

[powertoold]

Looks like Mobileye is going the Tesla-like approach, although with predefined maps:

 

[Bladerskb]

Your link went to the main zeekr page.

Is this your video?

Sina Visitor System

It looks really good on highways.

Also, I found this post on weibo that says Zeekr is bring L4 cars to the US soon? I knew Zeekr was planning to launch in the US by Q2 2023 but I did not know about L4. Will the cars be equipped with the hardware for Mobileye Chauffeur or is that a typo and they just mean the cars will be equipped with Mobileye SuperVision?

The L4 is the Waymo van.
Zeekr won’t be coming to US anytime soon. Maybe 2024/2025 timeframe.

And no it’s not my video. It’s video from Zeekr.

 

[Bladerskb]

Looks like Mobileye is going the Tesla-like approach, although with predefined maps:

How exactly is this the Tesla approach…

 

[diplomat33]

Looks like Mobileye is going the Tesla-like approach, although with predefined maps:

Mobileye is not going the Tesla-like approach. One, Mobileye has not changed their approach. Two, Mobileye has always believed in this approach focused on vision-only + maps + RSS for hands-off and imaging radar and lidar for eye's off. That is not the Tesla approach.

Sure, both Mobileye and Tesla are focused on consumer cars and going from L2 to L4 and both have a vision-only L2 product. But that is where any similarities end. If you actually look at the two approaches, they are very different.

Mobileye uses 11 HD cameras, maps and RSS and hands-free. Mobileye also adds lidar and imaging radar for eye's off. And Mobileye has a robotaxi.
Tesla uses 8 cameras, no maps, no RSS, no radar, no lidar. And it is hands-on. And Tesla has no eye's off. Tesla has no robotaxi.

It is more than just maps that are different. The cameras are different, the use of RSS, the use of radar and lidar are also different between Mobileye and Tesla.

So how is Mobileye going the Tesla-like approach when there are so many differences?

To say that Mobileye is going the Tesla-like approach is preposterous.

 

[diplomat33]

The L4 is the Waymo van.
Zeekr won’t be coming to US anytime soon. Maybe 2024/2025 timeframe.

And no it’s not my video. It’s video from Zeekr.

Thanks.

 

[scottf200]

My main question is whether NZP is an in-house L2 system developed by Zeekr that just uses the Mobileye's eyeQ chips and vision stack but uses Zeekr's HD maps or whether NZP uses the full SuperVision stack (vision, RSS, REM maps etc) and is just limited to highways for now.

I could not imagine using Supervision without their REM maps. The part of the Mobileye CES video (below) where they talked about how quickly they were able to populate their REM maps with real-world data was unbelievable in its breadth. And the "tiny" amount of data/bandwidth that was required. No video just the 'facts'.

Mobileye’s Approach – AV Maps

• Scalable-by-design: Millions of Mobileye-equipped ADAS vehicles sending data to the cloud in small data packets (10kb/km)
• Fully automated map generation at the push of a button
• Maps can be updated in near-real time because of sophisticated change-detection algorithms on millions of mapping agents
• Superior local accuracy: where it matters
• Using the “wisdom of the crowd” to create rich semantic layer of driving culture and traffic rules

Mobileye REM™ - Road Experience Management​

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