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Autonomous Car Progress

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That's because the manufacturer defines the ODD not the Levels.

Exactly! and without knowing the ODD, the level gives me insufficient information to know what the car can really do. Tesla's Level 2 is more useful to me than Waymo's Level 4 because I can actually use Tesla's Level 2. I cannot use Waymo's Level 4 because it won't operate where I live or anywhere within several time zones of where I live. Without knowing the ODD, the level gives me no useful information. A car company announces "We're Level 3: You can take your hands off the wheel!" I think "Wow! That's what I want!" But then it turn out the ODD is limited to certain specific freeways when driving slower than 15 mph, or some such, and it's useless.

Level 5 is the only one that really tells me what the car can do. Assuming that "Constant surveillance by iPad operator" does not turn out to be allowed within the SAE definition of Level 5 once the lawyers get to work litigating what can count as level 5.
 
Tesla is level 2 because Tesla says you have to pay attention and you are responsible if something happens while the ADAS system are engaged.

Minor difference but matters a lot.

Autopilot requires you to monitor the road and tells you to keep hands on wheel by requiring wheel torque or user input.

What I'm saying is the software feature itself requires a fallback driver.

What Tesla says is irrelevant actually. The definition doesn't place any limits on what the developer says or doesn't say. All the levels relate to the software feature alone.
 
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Yes, you can sense the desperation on TMC forums. ;) We're only anonymous nicks babbling online whereas there are many industry people that'll soon be justifying their positions, budgets, roadmaps, and futures again. There's been significant churn recently and it doesn't look like it'll be letting up.

It's Silicon Valley so I should be used to this, but the more I drive the more I want ADAS (like FSDbeta) deployed widely. This happened while I was heading home for lunch today. The white car was driving in the wrong lane against traffic (!?!?) and was backing up. I noticed that something looked wrong and switched lanes to avoid. I'm glad I got here a bit later because I get the feeling that the white car was driving in the wrong lane while on San Tomas Expwy (!) and tried exiting left into MORE on-coming traffic.

Wrong_way_driver.jpg


Yup, I smell a lot of desperation in the air. Granted, I don't like the idea of expanding fsd beta.
 
Yes, you can sense the desperation on TMC forums. ;) We're only anonymous nicks babbling online whereas there are many industry people that'll soon be justifying their positions, budgets, roadmaps, and futures again. There's been significant churn recently and it doesn't look like it'll be letting up.

It's Silicon Valley so I should be used to this, but the more I drive the more I want ADAS (like FSDbeta) deployed widely. This happened while I was heading home for lunch today. The white car was driving in the wrong lane against traffic (!?!?) and was backing up. I noticed that something looked wrong and switched lanes to avoid. I'm glad I got here a bit later because I get the feeling that the white car was driving in the wrong lane while on San Tomas Expwy (!) and tried exiting left into MORE on-coming traffic.

View attachment 712856

I will refrain from making jokes about the demographics of Santa Clara.
 
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HERE deploys their HD maps on the new Mercedes' L3 Drive Pilot:

“We’re thrilled to be among the world’s first companies to provide an HD map for series production vehicles capable of automated driving at SAE Level 3,” said Edzard Overbeek, CEO of HERE Technologies.

Read more here:

 
FYI, Germany automobile manufacturers (Mercedes, VW/Audi, BMW) own HERE. I remember they bought it from Nokia a long time ago.

HERE deploys their HD maps on the new Mercedes' L3 Drive Pilot:



Read more here:

 
So there it is, black on white. Tesla FSD beta is not autonomous. Progress towards autonomous for Tesla = 0.
Ofcourse they will ALWAYS say that to make sure people don't misinterpret. Even that doesn't stop some NTSB hacks from claiming Tesla is misleading.

And ofcourse t is not L5.

BUT - your "Progress towards autonomous for Tesla = 0" is an obvious lie. Rome wasn't built in one day.
 
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My my my... What do we have here? :)

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"Thank you for your interest in [...] Full Self-Driving Beta."

"FSD Beta does not make [the] car autonomous."

How have we gotten to the point where Full Self-Driving is not actually full self-driving? Originally FSD was supposed to mean that your car could be a robotaxi, driving itself around on pretty much any public roads, with nobody in it, to pick up riders. Now Full Self-Driving means that you "must be prepared to take action at any time."

Level 2 is not by any rational mode of thought "Full Self-Driving." Self-driving means the car drives itself. Full self-driving means that the car drives itself fully, without more input than a destination. Why must they put a grandiose and misleading label on what is already the best car on the road?
 
You're both trying waaaaayyyy too hard here on TESLAMotorsClub.com. All of your FUD and whining hasn't and won't stop Tesla for a second.

This isn't anywhere near the end of Tesla's FSD development roadmap. FSD being officially deployed on Tesla's fleet is the beginning so Tesla+FSD owners are near the start of the FSD era.

This thread: "Autonomous Car Progress"
"FSD Beta does not make my car autonomous"
How is this progress?

It's possible that it might actually set back progress if it results in government action against testing on public roads.

So there it is, black on white. Tesla FSD beta is not autonomous. Progress towards autonomous for Tesla = 0.
 
BUT - your "Progress towards autonomous for Tesla = 0" is an obvious lie. Rome wasn't built in one day.
Because FSD Beta is a beta of FSD :p
Anyway my point was that releasing the beta to more people has nothing to do with progress. I don't see any way in which it will help progress, it's not like they're having trouble finding bugs right now...
 
Ofcourse they will ALWAYS say that to make sure people don't misinterpret. Even that doesn't stop some NTSB hacks from claiming Tesla is misleading.

And ofcourse t is not L5.

BUT - your "Progress towards autonomous for Tesla = 0" is an obvious lie. Rome wasn't built in one day.
Well when I paid for FSD in 2017, on a car Tesla had to buy back because they didn't deliver, I certainly hoped for full self driving as they marketed.
I still hope they deliver autonomous technology, but until then I think we don't need to discuss Tesla in this thread at all. Tesla, including FSD beta, has a place in the ADAS thread at the moment, I'm afraid.
 
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You're both trying waaaaayyyy too hard here on TESLAMotorsClub.com. All of your FUD and whining hasn't and won't stop Tesla for a second.

This isn't anywhere near the end of Tesla's FSD development roadmap. FSD being officially deployed on Tesla's fleet is the beginning so Tesla+FSD owners are near the start of the FSD era.

Speaking for myself, I don't want to stop Tesla. I own TSLA stock, I drive a Tesla car, I have Tesla Powerwalls and Tesla control electronics in my solar set-up that provides all my electricity.

I just want Tesla to stop selling something that does not yet exist. Tesla has the best driver-assist system a consumer can buy, in the best cars consumers can buy. Tesla does not need to sell promises of a future technology that does not exist and that in spite of Musk's constant promises of full autonomy "real soon now," is probably years away. Selling something you don't have is sleazy at best, and dishonest at worst.

Keep working on FSD, and sell it when it actually exists. Until then, sell what you actually have, without the empty promises.