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AutoPilot 3.0
- Thread starter M3owner
- Start date
Free upgrade for those who purchased FSD package.
Full-Self Driving package was originally available for $3,000 with the price being raised to $5,000 later on. It was available up to late last year (October/November). I purchased it with my vehicle for $3,000 but many did not. I had purchased it before they announced the upgrade. I believe Tesla will still allow you to purchase it “off menu”. General consensus is Tesla removed it as a listed option to limit the amount of free upgrades.
You would need to purchase both the EAP package and the FSD package. Before delivery EAP was $5000 and FSD was $3000, but after delivery there is an additional cost of $1-$2K for each package depending on when you bought your car.
So total cost would be anywhere from $10,000 to $12,000.
So total cost would be anywhere from $10,000 to $12,000.
Two-year-old Model S. I purchased FSD initially (3K). Fortunately, I didn't lease because I'm still waiting for any tidbit of FSD. I've just begun noticing I'm being left behind with AP2.0. First was dashcam and now Sentry mode, only for AP2.5. I'm hoping AP3.0 Computer swap will bring them back for me. However, the latest update I see is the 2nd Radar. I expect to get the AP3.0 computer, Radar, not so sure.
Aggravating as it is, I still won't complain, I know of no other vehicle that gets any new features 2 years later. I did get a $300 check for a class action lawsuit (EAP, I think). Only a 10% rebate for my 2-year wait so far (maybe lawyers got the rest). At this point, I'm hoping Tesla has a big push for AP3.0 (maybe to avoid more lawsuits/paybacks on leased units with FSD paid). AP2.0 was Oct 2016. The end of this year is 3 years and leased vehicles with FSD will be coming back with never delivered features.
Aggravating as it is, I still won't complain, I know of no other vehicle that gets any new features 2 years later. I did get a $300 check for a class action lawsuit (EAP, I think). Only a 10% rebate for my 2-year wait so far (maybe lawyers got the rest). At this point, I'm hoping Tesla has a big push for AP3.0 (maybe to avoid more lawsuits/paybacks on leased units with FSD paid). AP2.0 was Oct 2016. The end of this year is 3 years and leased vehicles with FSD will be coming back with never delivered features.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There is no second radar.
There's a second set of wires for the one and only radar, for redundancy.
Same thing is already there on AP2.5 cars.
Sensor suite is not changing from 2.5->3- only the computer.
Also this tweet from Elon suggests Sentry mode is coming to everyone with AP2+ hardware regardless of if they bought EAP, FSD, or neither-
Elon Musk on Twitter
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
So there's a lot of misunderstanding here.
There is no AP3, nor has any been announced.
There is HW3. Which is only being used for FSD-only features- Tesla has repeatedly stated EAP does not need HW3.
HW3 is simply swapping the existing neutral net computer for a newer, more powerful, computer that will enable the first FSD-only features.
If you bought FSD and need the upgrade you get it free.
If you didn't buy FSD you don't get the upgrade since you don't need it.
As noted FSD requires EAP, so you'd have to have bought both. Both are still available as add-ons, but price is higher than if you'd bought prior to delivery.
Elon Tweets are unclear. Is AP2+ actually 2.0+? Additional Radar is conjecture at this point - Tesla reveals new self-driving Autopilot hardware 3.0 computer diagram ahead of launch.
Factually correct, but I do wonder if that will actually happen.
Tesla also claimed that only FSD would use all 8 eight cameras, and that EAP would only use 4 of them.
What Tesla says, and what actually happens are two entirely different things. It's tough to predict what will be needed for a given task before the task is actually achieved.
They haven't achieved EAP yet.
I'm concerned with all the false ghost vehicles that happen especially in the rain. How can EAP work when it has a serious case of hallucinations? Only HW3 will have the computing power required to have the improved more advanced neural networks.
It certainly makes sense that FSD will require better processing capability than EAP. But, the concern is the current AP2 hardware isn't adequate enough for Tesla to implement a high quality EAP system. They screwed up by promising automatic lane changes without confirmation. This means the SW has to be darn good at detecting incoming vehicles or it's going to be constantly putting customers in a "AP tried to kill me" situation.
So Tesla might face a situation where EAP on HW3 is significantly better than EAP on HW2/HW2.5.
I imagine Tesla will have a good deal for customers with EAP to upgrade to HW3 without adding FSD. Or for customers without EAP to add EAP+HW3.
That way it's additional revenue while also improving how they're perceived.
FSD owners like myself will get placated with promised SW features in the future that will notable depart then what the EAP only HW3 owners have.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's not conjecture- it's folks who didn't bother to notice 2.5 also has the same secondary radar connection for redundancy.... or who didn't bother to notice Elon explicitly stating 3.0 involves no sensor suite change
The major difference here being, they made the statement specifically to point out there was no reason for buyers to wait to purchase.
If it later turns out EAP "needs" HW3 for anything that puts Tesla in one of two positions:
A) Being sued for fraud by two distinct groups- every EAP-but-not-FSD owner who purchased between the time they made that statement and when they starting building HW3 into new cars.... and every EAP buyer with 2.x at all.
or
B) Offering a free HW3 upgrade to everyone who bought EAP. Ever.
Neither is especially tenable so we probably need to believe they're not lying about this. There's an easy way to make that so.
Other than not advanced summon (which works with 2.5 and is coming shortly), and prompting for lane changes, yes, they have.
EAP does every single thing originally promised in the feature except for that (and we know it CAN do the auto lane changes, it did in the beta version).
It might not to do to your personal satisfaction, but it's feature complete.
Naah- here's the trick to that.
Any feature beyond the bare promises in EAP is labeled an FSD feature.
If you only bought EAP, you get the best 2.x can offer- and I'm sure they'll continue to refine and optimize the code as best they can given the HW for a while at least.
If you buy EAP on a HW3-from-the-factory car you will get the same EAP the 2.x guys get.
(because it'd be pretty nightmarish to ask them to create 2 entirely different EAP code bases and maintain and improve both, while also working on the FSD codebase too...they're already pretty clearly overworked with just what they've got)
If you bought FSD you'll get additional features not part of EAP... and enabled by HW3. It's certainly possible that features that overlap will work a lot better for FSD owners. But any such improvements will only be there if running the FSD-specific NN on HW3..... not EAP owners on HW3.
Anything else involves one or more pretty awful scenarios for Tesla at this point (financially, staffing wise, technically, etc)
Olle
Active Member
Good summary. There was also a class action lawsuit by the US FSD buyers. If you opted out of the lawsuit you get HW3, if not, not, as I understood it, since you re otherwise default and get the check instead.
There was a class action lawsuit for Autopilot purchased on the Model S and Model X back in 2016 and resulted in owner refunds of a fraction of the initial cost of the autopilot software. I am not aware of any lawsuits for full self driving package as it was made clear that feature would only come online has regulatory approval is obtained.
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Blu Angel
Member
Great catch!
These Owners Believe Tesla Autopilot 3.0 Is Shipping Early W/Two Radars
Erik Strait, with the help of his friend David, has discovered the Tesla Autopilot 2.0 update ahead of its official launch.
Erik and David claim they have an early indication that Tesla Autopilot 3.0 (or really Autopilot 4.0) is on the way.
Most interestingly, they have uncovered 2 radars in the computer code sequence.
This may all be revealed in the 2019 full year & 4th quarter earnings report on January 30 @ 5:30 EST
Tesla's Full Year, Q4 2018 financial report and earnings call set for January 30
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
And they, too, are wrong, as previously explained.
There's only 1 radar- with a redundant connection.
exactly like HW2.5 comes with today.
And Elon explicitly stated no change to sensor suite
Tesla would be on the hook for free retrofits (or full car refunds) to every Tesla sold after he said that until they began including the new HW in new builds if it wasn't true.
Here's a link from when they "discovered" the secondary radar thing in 2.5 code.
Can anybody confirm if (and when) Tesla changed to Continental AG as their radar supplier? Was it Bosch before? What's the scoop? : teslamotors
Still only 1 actual radar, just 2 sets of wiring for redundancy.
There's only 1 radar- with a redundant connection.
exactly like HW2.5 comes with today.
And Elon explicitly stated no change to sensor suite
Tesla would be on the hook for free retrofits (or full car refunds) to every Tesla sold after he said that until they began including the new HW in new builds if it wasn't true.
Here's a link from when they "discovered" the secondary radar thing in 2.5 code.
Can anybody confirm if (and when) Tesla changed to Continental AG as their radar supplier? Was it Bosch before? What's the scoop? : teslamotors
Still only 1 actual radar, just 2 sets of wiring for redundancy.
I'm wondering if their other conclusion about an imminent update to the HW3 computer is right though. Seems they are using past rollout for current prediction. While I hope they are right, I'm skeptical. Looking forward to hearing any updated info on the conf call...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Well, the previously announced window for HW3 was ~6 months from mid-October 2018 for all cars to ship with it....
So that'd be mid-April.
Which means they'd need production level chips being produced within the next ~4-6 weeks or maybe sooner (depending on production rate) to be able to get them into 100% of production cars (5k a week) by April.
But I agree we should have a solid update on this on the call.
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