Autopilot - Carpool Lane Fail

[Ben W]

Recently my Model 3 with Autopilot+FSD+DriveOnNav has been having a serious issue with carpool lanes. It agressively tries to get into the carpool lane, even when there's a double yellow line, and simply won't take no for an answer: if I cancel the lane change it immediately tries again, and the only way to break out of the loop is to disable Autopilot altogether. Software is 2019.20.4.1 b612f97.

Video (taken by my passenger) of what this looks like, on 405S near Mulholland:

The warning text switches rapidly between 'Apply slight turning force to steering wheel' (which I do) and 'Trying to complete maneuver' (which doesn't succeed because it won't go over the double yellow line).

More disturbingly, on an earlier trip on 405N near Wilshire, once the car got into the carpool lane, it immediately tried to merge left AGAIN into the concrete median. (Autopilot signaled the lane change, which I immediately canceled; I didn't wait to find out if it would actually start merging.) I'll try to see if this happens again (and have my passenger take video) next time I'm on that route, and see if it actually tries to steer into the median.

The proper behavior for these scenarios, I would imagine, would be for the car to NOT signal/initiate the lane change until it is at least in visual range of carpool lane entrypoint (dashed white line). It should also recognize that the carpool lane is optional, not mandatory, for following a given route, and if the driver indicates (especially multiple times) not to switch into the carpool lane, it should probably stop trying for a while. For that matter, I wish there were an "Automatic" HOV setting that would use the seat sensors to determine the car's occupancy, and use the carpool lane only if there are enough people in the car. (E.g. for those whose carpool stickers have expired, or who don't want to put them on the car.)

 

[cruiserlarry]

I have the exact same issue, in the exact same location, with my 2017 Model S....I haven't tried it yet with my wife's 2019 Model 3 to see if it does the same thing yet....

 

[cwerdna]

Frankly, I'm not incredibly surprised. HOV lanes with with the double yellow lines and only certain legal entry and exit points aren't that common up here in the SF Bay Area (or at least near where I live, work and frequent). And, well, Tesla is based in the Bay Area.

Over two decades ago when I was in college in LA, I had no idea the above was even a thing. I crossed one of these and my roommate pointed out I just entered/exited an HOV illegally. I'd never seen one of those up here in Nor Cal back then.

Also, apparently in 2014 on some of the few places that have them up here, they're double white lines (Roadshow: It’s illegal to cross double white lines – The Mercury News). It also asserts "A few years ago federal officials said double yellow lines should be replaced by double white lines nationally to separate toll lanes from other lanes on freeways."

 

[JulienW]

Oddly I was going through a construction zone that had solid white lines and was behind a slow truck. Tried to force Autopilot to change lane and it said something like "Lane Change Currently Unavailable".

Also I find Navigate on Autopilot WAY to beta for in city driving and usually just toggle off and on. So I would toggle off and then back on near my exit. Seems to work better on 2 to 3 lane iInterstates.

 

[Paddy3101]

Yep, get the same thing.

On the stretch I use daily, it seems to get lost, and wants to constantly switch lanes back and forward between the 2/3 HOV lanes. This is a section where the HOV lanes are physically separated from the main carriageway.

On the main carriageway it also seems lost, and wants to get into the far-right hand lane.

I always have to turn off NOA and use standard Autopilot. Seems confused about how many lanes the road has, and which it should be in.

 

[animorph]

And then there's AZ, or at least around Phoenix, where solid double white lines denote the HOV lane. I have no idea why. They used to be single solid white lines. There are no preferred entry openings, so we cross the double white lines at will to enter the HOV lane. For a while Autopilot would not recognize the HOV lanes at all, but now it does.

The SoCal double yellow lines with entry points were OK. I think the entry points are too short to easily work with auto lane changes. But lots of different configurations for Autopilot to figure out.

 

[Evangeline]

Yup, same thing happens to me in LA. Including wanting to change lanes into the median. If I have my navigation settings set to allow HOV lanes, it'll aggressively force me to on NOA; and if I have NOA on when I'm in a carpool lane when I have the HOV option off, it'll aggressively force me out - to the point that it's dangerously distracting until I turn NOA off. NOA also can't handle the Wilshire exits on the 405 at the best of times (especially on the 405S).

Drives me crazy! I go back and forth on whether I let navigation use HOV lanes. Sometimes I leave it off and let Waze tell me whether I'm best to use them, and then just turn NOA off on those drives.

I also don't like the "getting out of the passing lane" feature, I wish that was an option I can turn off. In the city, there is no such thing as a passing lane. Outside the city, the non-passing lane is filled with trucks, so you can only go a short distance before the car wants to change to the faster lane again, and you end up zigzagging down the freeway, and all those unnecessary lane changes aren't safe.

 

[Ben W]

Ok, I was able to capture video of the car attempting to change lanes into the median. This was today on 405N near Skirball, in my Model 3 (2019.20.4.2 66625e9):

I'll send this video and info to Tesla, and see what they say.

 

[jkeyser14]

Ok, I was able to capture video of the car attempting to change lanes into the median. This was today on 405N near Skirball, in my Model 3 (2019.20.4.2 66625e9):

I'll send this video and info to Tesla, and see what they say.

If you are lucky, you will get a response in 1-2 months where a person will say that they are making a note of it. If you are unlucky, you will never hear a peep from Tesla. They have yet to respond to any of my emails where I attached videos with phantom collision avoidance braking, phanton ELDA, etc.

 

[JulienW]

Yesterday I was in the HOV lane with double solid lines using AutoPilot. Was behind a slower moving vehicle and most of the right lanes were moving faster. Cut on Navigate just to see and it immediately cut on the right signal to cross the double solid lines and I cut off Navigate. Waited a moment and cut back on and same thing again. Cut off and came to an exit area (dash lanes) and hit right right signal and AutoPilot changed as normal. Passed vehicle but waited until solid lines to get back over. Hit signal and AutoPilot would NOT cross the solid white lines.

Seems odd that Navigate on AutoPilot will cross (or at least wants to try) double solid lines but AutoPilot won't.

 

[ryanmangos]

I have the same issue on the 134/210 area around Eagle Rock and Pasadena. I will be in the carpool lane, turn on NAV on AP, and it will automatically signal to go into the wall. I did feel it drift a little then I stopped it right away. I do get the aggressive carpool change pretty often as well.

 

[ducktales]

Use the voice command to "bug report"

 

[handelawen]

my friend crashed his left side mirror while using autopilot at carpool lane. i would not use it anymore

 

[Huskyf]

my friend crashed his left side mirror while using autopilot at carpool lane. i would not use it anymore

Strange message are you a troll give images or nothing happend

 

[Soda Popinski]

Same behavior at the same stretch of the 405 back from April 2019, as per this video. It will continue to signal, but won't change lanes with the solid line. Yep, confusing, and not good.

 

[mtndrew1]

I experience the same on the 405. I let it do the signal thing to merge left (hands gripping the wheel) and it never actually tries to merge into the median but the behavior is bizarre and irritating. I just leave NoA off most of the time because it’s effectively useless.

The phenomenon has been slightly less bad in recent months (I join the 405N from the 105W) but it’s remarkable that such a heavily trafficked area in a Tesla-heavy market adjacent to a Tesla/spacex facility is such a cluster. They must get a ton of disengagements and overrides yet it never gets fixed.

 

[drtimhill]

Recently my Model 3 with Autopilot+FSD+DriveOnNav has been having a serious issue with carpool lanes. It agressively tries to get into the carpool lane, even when there's a double yellow line, and simply won't take no for an answer: if I cancel the lane change it immediately tries again, and the only way to break out of the loop is to disable Autopilot altogether. Software is 2019.20.4.1 b612f97.

Video (taken by my passenger) of what this looks like, on 405S near Mulholland:

The warning text switches rapidly between 'Apply slight turning force to steering wheel' (which I do) and 'Trying to complete maneuver' (which doesn't succeed because it won't go over the double yellow line).

More disturbingly, on an earlier trip on 405N near Wilshire, once the car got into the carpool lane, it immediately tried to merge left AGAIN into the concrete median. (Autopilot signaled the lane change, which I immediately canceled; I didn't wait to find out if it would actually start merging.) I'll try to see if this happens again (and have my passenger take video) next time I'm on that route, and see if it actually tries to steer into the median.

The proper behavior for these scenarios, I would imagine, would be for the car to NOT signal/initiate the lane change until it is at least in visual range of carpool lane entrypoint (dashed white line). It should also recognize that the carpool lane is optional, not mandatory, for following a given route, and if the driver indicates (especially multiple times) not to switch into the carpool lane, it should probably stop trying for a while. For that matter, I wish there were an "Automatic" HOV setting that would use the seat sensors to determine the car's occupancy, and use the carpool lane only if there are enough people in the car. (E.g. for those whose carpool stickers have expired, or who don't want to put them on the car.)

The freeway section looks very new in the photo. If this is new lanes, then it may be a map update issue, since the car is getting conflicting data from the map and cameras about the status of the various lanes.

 

[Rice&Curry]

I don't own a M3- but i am curious why is the SW version is 2019. I have a MY and MX and they are both on 2021.4.15. xxxx version. No SW updates on M3?

 

[run-the-joules]

Frankly, I'm not incredibly surprised. HOV lanes with with the double yellow lines and only certain legal entry and exit points aren't that common up here in the SF Bay Area (or at least near where I live, work and frequent). And, well, Tesla is based in the Bay Area.

and yet, time-based HOV lanes and left side exits are reasonably common up here, but they still don't support those either.

 

[powertoold]

Turn off automatic lane changes with NoA, just have NoA suggest lane changes and you initiate with stalk