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Battery range - not looking like 310

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by devsters, Aug 6, 2018.

  1. devsters

    devsters Member

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    I've had my car about 2 weeks now, just charged it once - up to like 270 miles of range. I've driven less than 50 miles since then and the range is now down to 163 miles! What is going on? I am in a lot of stop and go traffic - does it make that much of a difference? I do have the full regen braking.

    Does the range estimate ever adjust based on driving history? Or does it always assume you will be driving on an open freeway? That's kind of dangerous if you are low on range in an urban area. It doesn't seem to be reliable.
     
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  2. ebmcs03

    ebmcs03 Active Member

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    You sound like you charged it up to 90% and the. Letting it sit, there’s a lot of vampire drain.

    I’ve done a road trip to San Diego. Charged it to 99% and it was at 313 miles. It was pretty accurate for me.
     
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  3. novox77

    novox77 1.21 Gigawatts

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    The battery range is based on the current state-of-charge of the battery and the rated efficiency of the car. It is not affected by your driving habits.

    It sounds like you didn't drive all 50 miles in one drive, which means you left the car parked and uncharged in various locations. Depending on your firmware version, you might have cabin overheat protection on, which will drain the battery as the car activates the A/C compressor to keep things cool. Or you might have some normal + abnormal vampire drain that makes up for the difference. It kinda depends on how many days have passed during those 50 miles.
     
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  4. CtznSnips

    CtznSnips Member

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    The range is actually better in stop and go traffic. The car loses charge even when the car is parked and no one is in it.

    Tesla recommends that the car is plugged in whenever possible when it is not being driven. See the owners manual.
     
  5. devsters

    devsters Member

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    Hmm ok thanks for the input. Yea it's been about 5 days now since last charge. I'll make sure the cabin overheat thing is off. I'm surprised vampire drain would be that severe.
     
  6. BioSehnsucht

    BioSehnsucht Model 3 LR

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    I daily charge at 120V and find range not to be an issue, but that's because when I get home I plug in and I leave it plugged in until I leave. If possible, even if you don't have a high powered connection (EVSE/HPWC) and must use 120V, just keep it plugged in whenever possible.

    Of course if you lack a garage or other location where 120V is available and protected from the weather (though if you're in CA the weather should be fine generally), that may not be easy.
     
  7. toddklaus

    toddklaus Member

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    Per the owner's manual"

     
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  8. oldpueblo

    oldpueblo Member

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    Cabin overheating only kicks on when it hits 105, so if that's actually happening then you might want to leave it on.
     
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  9. devsters

    devsters Member

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    Gotcha thanks.
     
  10. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Turn off the carbin overheating;
    Do without 3rd party Apps that connect to the car.

    I think vampire loads then settle down to ~ 2 miles a day. Still not great, but improving.
     
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  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    Nah.

    Park facing the sun if you cannot park in the shade
    Use sunshades
    Crack the windows open when possible
     
    • Disagree x 1
  12. BerTX

    BerTX Supporting Member

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    Cabin overheat protects the electronics in the car -- it isn't for your comfort at all.
     
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  13. novox77

    novox77 1.21 Gigawatts

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    EPA rating for LR RWD is 26kWh/100mi, or 0.26kWh/mi. Assuming the Model 3 has a 75kWh usable battery, that means if you charge the battery to 80%, the battery is at 75kWh * 0.8 = 60kWh. If it takes 0.26kWh to go 1 mile (the rated efficiency), then at 80% charge, the miles remaining will be 60kWh / 0.26kWh/mi = 231mi.

    In reality, the calc is not perfect because the EPA rating includes charging losses, while the car's miles remaining does not take that into account. Using 24kWh/100mi = 0.24kWh/mi = 240Wh/mi is a better approximation for rated range.

    upload_2018-8-6_13-58-41.png

    When you set your charge limit, the tick marks are at 100%, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, and 50%. you cannot set a charge limit below 50%. The numbers above in my spreadsheet are very close to what my miles remaining read when I charge to those levels. My daily driving charge limit is 60%, and when complete, it is usually 186mi +/- 1 mile.

    If you drive the car from 60% charge to 50% charge, the miles remaining will be really close to 155 miles. It does not matter if you got to 50% driving like a maniac or super gently.
     
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  14. novox77

    novox77 1.21 Gigawatts

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    It is a safety feature to prolong life in the event you accidentally leave a kid or pet in the car with the windows up.
     
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  15. ronm2948

    ronm2948 Member

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    I know that this is how cabin overheat protection is supposed to work, but it was not my experience. I was having vampire drain of about 20 miles a day. This happened while my car was in my garage out of the sun. The garage was hot, but never got above 85ºF. People suggested I turn off cabin overheat protection, but I didn’t see the point since my car was sitting in a shady garage. After turning off cabin overheat protection, I’m seeing vampire drain of 0-1 miles per day. Clearly it must have been kicking in at temperatures < 90º, despite the manual saying it doesn’t kick in until 105º. (either that, or cabin overheat protection was preventing the car from going to sleep as it monitored the car’s temperature checking to see if it needed to be turned on).
     
    • Informative x 3
  16. Pollux

    Pollux Active Member

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    Hi, @devsters,

    I hope you are otherwise enjoying your Model 3. :)

    First and foremost, the biggest favor you are doing for yourself is paying attention to your range estimates and energy consumption.

    Dunno how much you are reading these forums, so in case you aren't, the "vampire drain" posters above have mentioned is the name for the concept of an EV losing energy, say overnight, due to other activities going on in the car. For example, a car might have an over-active monitoring system that is waking up every few seconds to watch all the other devices in the car. It takes energy to wake up that monitoring system, and then energy to gather all the info, etc. That's probably not the best example in that the energy required for monitoring shouldn't be that much. But if the monitoring were mistakenly happening say, 10 times a second instead of once a minute, then a bunch of extra energy will be consumed.

    A more likely candidate for vampire drain, mentioned by another poster, is that your car's Battery Management System (BMS) could be triggering a lot of battery pack cooling activity if you are living in a particularly warm area. Over the course of two weeks, additional BMS cooling activity could consume a pretty good chunk of energy.

    As another poster hypothesized, you might be making small trips. Small trips use higher amounts of energy per mile than longer trips. That's because when you first start out, the car has lots of additional stuff to do to get ready and also the battery pack may need to be warmed (or cooled). If you watch your energy consumption graph/info, you'll see that early on you might be using, say, 400 wH per mile. When your Model 3 is hitting its stride, say after 5 miles, consumption should drop to maybe 250 wH per mile. I drive an S and when I first start out might be getting around 450-500 wH/mile, then after it settles down it might go down to 330 wH per mile. Your range estimate will then go down much faster than your actual miles driven.

    If you drive aggressively, you will also use more energy per mile than if you drive gently. Range estimate will then decline faster than actual miles driven.

    You might want to spend a few minutes examining all of the controls and settings to see if there are any surprises.

    Having said all that, I respectfully disagree with an earlier poster who said that, "Letting it sit, there’s a lot of vampire drain." While that was true with earlier software releases, at this point, most (nearly all?) people posting about Model 3, S and X are reporting small or zero overnight drains. UNLESS cabin overheat protection is kicking on, or you're leaving the climate controls running, or you've left the car in fierce direct sunlight or otherwise in a hot area so that the BMS repeatedly kicks in to cool the battery.

    Generally speaking, many (most?) owners leave their cars plugged in at night, so they have a "full" (say, 80% full, you can set the charging maximum as you wish) battery every morning. If you do that, you won't have much if any range anxiety during your typical day, although you might still want to watch the energy consumption.

    Finally, there are posters on this forum who consistently achieve range significantly in excess of what Tesla advertises for the EPA ratings. They typically drive gently and in some cases also "hypermile". I am not one of these people. :)

    Best of luck to you.

    Alan
     
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  17. DanH

    DanH Member

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    Elon needs to make another trip to your place.
     
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  18. eSpiritIV

    eSpiritIV Member

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    The Vampire drain has been fixed with firmware update. You should ask for it if you hadnt got it yet
     
  19. SpudLime

    SpudLime Member

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    No.. no, this is NOT the reason for it. It is to protect the electronics. Cabin temperature of 105 degrees will still harm a child or animal.
     
    • Disagree x 6
  20. SpudLime

    SpudLime Member

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    If the garage was 85 degrees, it most likely was hotter inside the car. or did you mean the temp was what you were seeing in the car?
     
    • Disagree x 2

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