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Bay Area PGE rate plan for EV + Solar panel

alexmyx

New Member
Jan 10, 2020
3
0
Bay Area
I've gotten my model 3 earlier this month. Trying to figure out what's the best PGE rate plan to choose now that I've got a couple of EVs (Model 3 + Golf E). We are looking at using probably combined of 20-30 Kwh of electricity every night. I do have solar panels. Should I just blindly switch to the EV2-A plan or should I consider other stuff as well? Based on PGE estimate, EV2-A will significantly increase my rates based on my last year's usage but that has not factored in my EV charging yet. I've done some research online but there is not very conclusive answer. Anyone has any suggestions?
 

JPP

Active Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,080
1,331
SF Bay Area, CA
EV2 is definitely bad for solar + EV owners. like @JPP i have calculated that TOU-A is better for me. although the reason EV2 is bad is that they've shifted the peak hours to late in the afternoon... and supposedly they are going to do the same thing to TOU-A/B soon.

The other big issue with EV2-A is that they ostensibly made the partial peak time longer and 'better', but across the board the $$/kWh have all gone up. For example the cheapest overnight rate was about $0.09-0.10/kWh, now up to like $0.15-0.16/kWh.

And, yes, TOU-A is to have the peak shifted to match TOU-B, and rumor has it that they are phasing out TOU-A for new rate payers.
 

eevee-fan

Active Member
Dec 2, 2019
2,036
2,664
Nevada
If you have solar, you want to cool down your AC when the sun is out and use the power you generate. Then when you get home, it's nice and cool and HVAC does not run for a few hours later. Hopefully your solar panel is sufficient to run the AC without using grid power.
 
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The other big issue with EV2-A is that they ostensibly made the partial peak time longer and 'better', but across the board the $$/kWh have all gone up. For example the cheapest overnight rate was about $0.09-0.10/kWh, now up to like $0.15-0.16/kWh.

And, yes, TOU-A is to have the peak shifted to match TOU-B, and rumor has it that they are phasing out TOU-A for new rate payers.

I've been helping spread the rumor/news about E-TOU-A in one of the other threads. It's not unsubstantiated - it's messages PG&E themselves are posting on the Rate Comparison Tools page itself. Currently, it says that E-TOU-A customers will all be shifted over to E-TOU 4-9 pm starting in July (I think it may have said August for a time).

Earlier last fall, the message was that E-TOU-A was going to shift from 3-8 to 4-9 peak period as of Jan 1, making it close to E-TOU-C3 (4-9pm every day). Looking at the usage details for January so far, it appears they at least have not bothered to shift E-TOU-A peak for the remaining six months.

So unless one can get grandfathered on E-TOU-A for five years from solar or Powerwall PTO date, I assume everyone on E-TOU-A will be moved to E-TOU-C3.

That really just leaves a few choices left: EV2-A, E-TOU-C3, E-TOU-B, or E-1 for single-meter households. And sometime in the next few years, TOU will become mandatory so E-1 will disappear as well.

For the OP, the PG&E Rate Comparison Tool has a simple five-question tool that can account for your additional EV usage going forward - ignore all the questions (as the tool already factors in your previous 12 months of solar or EV usage), and for the last question on getting an EV, just add your estimated incremental miles/week that you'll be additionally charging this year. It will then adjust the comparison based on your actual historic with additional EV charging (tool assumes charging is at the lowest off-peak period).
 
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wws

Active Member
Aug 11, 2014
1,133
1,419
Northern California
I have the same situation, including my wife losing free charging at work, and am hanging on to EV-A as long as I can. Unfortunately EV-A is no longer available to new customers, and they are doing all they can to kick those of us who have it off of it.

One tip in advance of making any changes - start charging at midnight regardless of which plan you are on. Then, as time goes on over the next 12 months, the online estimator tool for the different plans will become more accurate for your usage. (In my case with EV-A the cheap rates start at 11 PM. But even starting at midnight, both cars are easily charged by 7 AM.)
 

famdrive

New Member
Feb 21, 2020
4
0
CA
Hearing all this sucks. I wanted to get rid of my Tahoe and get a Model X as the Tahoe is just too big for us now that army kids are no longer babies

I live in the 925 Antioch/Oakley/Brentwood area and have solar but I work from home everyday and my wife works from home 3-4 days a week. My home is newer so I wouldn’t need the AC for the morning and afternoon but would after that.

I was really hoping that getting the Tesla would save a ton compared to getting gas in the Tahoe but it seems like the savings wouldn’t be that great. We just got our True Up and it doubled then what we payed last year.

anyone with a Tesla live in the same area as me? Deal with what I’m describing?
 

JPP

Active Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,080
1,331
SF Bay Area, CA
Hearing all this sucks. I wanted to get rid of my Tahoe and get a Model X as the Tahoe is just too big for us now that army kids are no longer babies

I live in the 925 Antioch/Oakley/Brentwood area and have solar but I work from home everyday and my wife works from home 3-4 days a week. My home is newer so I wouldn’t need the AC for the morning and afternoon but would after that.

I was really hoping that getting the Tesla would save a ton compared to getting gas in the Tahoe but it seems like the savings wouldn’t be that great. We just got our True Up and it doubled then what we payed last year.

anyone with a Tesla live in the same area as me? Deal with what I’m describing?

You would need to add Powerwalls and time shift and get onto the EV2-A PG&E rate plan to optimize savings. PG&E moved the goalposts to screw the 'ordinary' solar homeowner.
 
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jboy210

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Dec 2, 2016
5,979
4,025
Northern California
You would need to add Powerwalls and time shift and get onto the EV2-A PG&E rate plan to optimize savings. PG&E moved the goalposts to screw the 'ordinary' solar homeowner.


Agreed. Plus the closer you live to any wiring effected by PSPS the more you want batteries. We suffered 3 days of shutoff last year with no fire closer than 30 miles. And 1/2 day of outright failure this year. And it is only Feb!!!. With that sort of "service" from PG&E a PowerWall is cheap protection since both of us work from home, and no power == no billing.
 
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KSilver2000

Active Member
Dec 23, 2017
1,368
2,438
CA
I wanted to get rid of my Tahoe and get a Model X as the Tahoe is just too big for us now that army kids are no longer babies

I was really hoping that getting the Tesla would save a ton compared to getting gas in the Tahoe but it seems like the savings wouldn’t be that great. We just got our True Up and it doubled then what we payed last year.

anyone with a Tesla live in the same area as me? Deal with what I’m describing?

I think maybe back up for a second. Is the main reason for getting an X about the size or potential expense savings?

As much as we love our X.....If you’re thinking of getting one because you believe it will save you a lot of money, you probably have the wrong idea. (Well, okay, maybe you might be looking at a ~2016 used X.)

Financially speaking, comparing getting an X versus keeping your existing Tahoe, you will likely not see any cost savings. In fact, you’ll end up spending more looking at the big picture. From a financial standpoint, you can’t just solely look at gas vs electricity cost. Purchasing an X costs a lot more than a Tahoe, the insurance will be a lot higher on the Tesla, and maintenance service (only if you actually follow all the suggested maintenance items, which I doubt most do) costs more similar to buying a luxury car.

But, ignoring the financials, if you like the size and design of the X, the ease of charging, and saving the planet, then I can’t suggest any better SUV than the X.
 

newbs

New Member
Apr 27, 2020
4
2
SF Bay Area
Sorry to revive this thread, but we just recently got solar (with PowerWalls) and have 2.5 electric vehicles (M3, BMW i3, and a Volvo XC90 T8). Any thoughts on the best available rate plan? I'm thinking that we can be mostly self-sufficient with the solar and batteries, but to the extent we need extra power, we can time shift it to the overnight rates, so the EV rate might be best. I think we should be able to avoid using any power during the peak period with the solar plus PowerWall.
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
7,707
14,991
California
Sorry to revive this thread, but we just recently got solar (with PowerWalls) and have 2.5 electric vehicles (M3, BMW i3, and a Volvo XC90 T8). Any thoughts on the best available rate plan? I'm thinking that we can be mostly self-sufficient with the solar and batteries, but to the extent we need extra power, we can time shift it to the overnight rates, so the EV rate might be best. I think we should be able to avoid using any power during the peak period with the solar plus PowerWall.
EV2-A isn’t terrible if you can use powerwall cover the late afternoon and early evening peak period between when solar production drops off and the rates drop.
 
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newbs

New Member
Apr 27, 2020
4
2
SF Bay Area
EV2-A isn’t terrible if you can use powerwall cover the late afternoon and early evening peak period between when solar production drops off and the rates drop.

That was my thinking as well, and I think we can cover those peak periods. The EVA-2 seems like it would end up being better than the ETOU-C for us.

It's crazy how expensive PG&E is (and they still can't seem to get their ducks in a row). We moved from Santa Clara where the rate was around $0.11/kWh base and maybe $0.13 if you exceed the threshold. PG&E has a crazy low baseline (I think it is 10kWh per day) and jacks the rates way up after that. I only wish I had the money and the roof space to put in more solar and batteries to avoid dealing with them.
 
wanted to bump this thread.
PGE introduced new E-TOU-D plan and according to them i would save more if i switch from EV-2A to E-TOU-D. its not that i trust PGE. Has anyone done analysis & compared prices?
Here is pricing for each reate: https://www.pge.com/pge_global/comm...-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing-2020.pdf
upload_2020-12-29_8-7-55.png
 
Last edited:

JPP

Active Member
Feb 4, 2013
3,080
1,331
SF Bay Area, CA
A lot depends on whether you have Powerwalls. Without Powerwalls you need to try to optimize your solar production and match to PG&E's peak rate time. But because it is shifted into evening hours, you get punished with any of these TOU plans (5-8 pm vs 4-9 pm). Powerwalls make it possible to 'match' your solar to your peak rate time. The it is a matter of figuring out how much you pay 'off peak' or 'partial peak' with either plan.
 

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