Behavior of latest FSD beta after subscription ends

[JulienW]

Both Auto Steer and Full Self-Driving are listed as beta in that screenshot.

One is Autosteer NoA beta and the other is FSD Beta. Isn't FSD Beta what you are asking about?
Autopilot/autosteer has been labeled as a beta since it was introduced YEARS ago and still is. Unrelated to FSD beta.

Do you have a Tesla? Look and you will see Autosteer/AP is labeled as beta on your car and EVERY Tesla.

As for Visilazations. LOOK at my picture and you will see if paid for you have the option to turn them on or off in NoA (right there in the picture).

 

[J-a-x]

Ah you're right, it does say Beta in my new ModelY with EAP, I forgot it was beta for everyone.

I had assumed the "plain vanilla ships with every car" Autosteer was not beta and "FSD-beta software branch" had Autosteer Beta with some new behaviors for testing.

 

[J-a-x]

Can you confirm on your car with FSD that when you select "AutoSteer (Beta)" it looks exactly like AutoSteer (beta) did before you got on the FSD-beta branch?

I guess I had assumed that since there was a new single-stack for highway and city in the beta branch that the beta software would also change the conventional Autosteer mode to use new visualizations etc (just limit the capabilities to steering rather than fully self driving)...

 

[EVRider-FL]

Can you confirm on your car with FSD that when you select "AutoSteer (Beta)" it looks exactly like AutoSteer (beta) did before you got on the FSD-beta branch?

I guess I had assumed that since there was a new single-stack for highway and city in the beta branch that the beta software would also change the conventional Autosteer mode to use new visualizations etc (just limit the capabilities to steering rather than fully self driving)...

You're overthinking it.

You can use EAP as usual whether or not you have a FSD Beta build installed. If you're subscribed to FSD, you get the choice to use either the FSD Beta or regular FSD (which is essentially EAP plus Traffic Light/Stop Sign Control). If you're not subscribed, you can only use EAP.

The important point is that if you want to keep the option to use FSD Beta later, don't install a build that's newer than the newest FSD Beta build, because if you do you'll have to wait for FSD Beta to catch up.

 

[JulienW]

FSD Beta

Autoster/NoA about the same spot

 

[J-a-x]

That settles it then. Thank you and apologies if I’d came across as pedantic.

 

[wcorey]

One is Autosteer NoA beta and the other is FSD Beta. Isn't FSD Beta what you are asking about?
Autopilot/autosteer has been labeled as a beta since it was introduced YEARS ago and still is. Unrelated to FSD beta.

Do you have a Tesla? Look and you will see Autosteer/AP is labeled as beta on your car and EVERY Tesla.

As for Visilazations. LOOK at my picture and you will see if paid for you have the option to turn them on or off in NoA (right there in the picture).

Absolutely correct Julien! Is there any Tesla auto software, presumably in any tesla, that isn't technically still a beta product? Feels a lot like liability hedge.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Absolutely correct Julien! Is there any Tesla auto software, presumably in any tesla, that isn't technically still a beta product? Feels a lot like liability hedge.

All of the driver assistance features except Autopark are marked as Beta in the manual. Ironically, Autopark is one of the least reliable driver assistance features. Note that Autopark is not currently available in cars without ultrasonic sensors.

For liability reasons, I'm guessing the features will remain Beta indefinitely.

 

[wcorey]

I'm highly skeptical of the removal of forward radar and USS. Yes, humans and other animals, can judge distance with eyesight alone, but the requires triangulation. Simulating that in software puts an unnecessary burden on a fixed cpu resource. Given HW4 will only be available for S and X, that puts an upper limit on 3s and Ys for how reliable and fault tolerant FSD will be. Truth be told, they're already no longer fault tolerant.

 

[snovvman]

From a software update perspective--if one is on the FSDb stack and subscribed, and later lets the subscription lapse:

1) Will the next update be the non-FSDb stack?
2) If #1 is true, and if one ignores the update (does not update and keep the FSDb stack) and re-subscribes to FSD (and re-enables FSDb), will the car then cancel the non-FSDb stack update and load the next FSDb stack update when available (so long as the subscription is current)?

This can be a way to remain on the FSDb stack while not continuously subscribe.

Thanks.

 

[JB47394]

1) Will the next update be the non-FSDb stack?

If Tesla keeps with its current development process, yes. They want to move to a process where both the infotainment changes and the autonomy changes go out together, but the pattern so far has been that each set of changes gets its own release; people not in FSDb get the infotainment changes, and people in FSDb get the autonomy changes. This latest update with both sets of changes may indicate a new process, or it may just be a one-off by Tesla to allow people not in the beta test to subscribe and play with the beta test software.

2) If #1 is true, and if one ignores the update (does not update and keep the FSDb stack) and re-subscribes to FSD (and re-enables FSDb), will the car then cancel the non-FSDb stack update and load the next FSDb stack update when available (so long as the subscription is current)?

You should assume that if you are not in the FSD beta program then you will continue to be offered the latest infotainment updates (there is no car feature to indicate whether you want to prioritize infotainment or autonomy). On the bright side, Tesla may have figured out a development process that allows them to continue to deliver the latest wide release of FSDb with the infotainment changes. So you could continue to get updates while keeping subscription access to FSDb 11.3.6.

Anyone who has firmware version 2023.12.10 is ahead of the people in the beta test program because they have the same autonomy software as well as the latest infotainment software. We're all hoping that Tesla can get to the point of keeping both sets of changes in synch in their updates so we all get the newest features.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I'm highly skeptical of the removal of forward radar and USS. Yes, humans and other animals, can judge distance with eyesight alone, but the requires triangulation. Simulating that in software puts an unnecessary burden on a fixed cpu resource. Given HW4 will only be available for S and X, that puts an upper limit on 3s and Ys for how reliable and fault tolerant FSD will be. Truth be told, they're already no longer fault tolerant.

Forward radar was disabled a while ago in allnsoftware stacks.

It took a while to get as good and now better than it was with radar, minus the max speed, but it's there now.

The USS could be the same...or they may never reach the same accuracy. I agree that Tesla shouldn't disable/remove these until they have an adequate replacement, but it saves money for them.

 

[snovvman]

If Tesla keeps with its current development process, yes. They want to move to a process where both the infotainment changes and the autonomy changes go out together, but the pattern so far has been that each set of changes gets its own release; people not in FSDb get the infotainment changes, and people in FSDb get the autonomy changes. This latest update with both sets of changes may indicate a new process, or it may just be a one-off by Tesla to allow people not in the beta test to subscribe and play with the beta test software.

You should assume that if you are not in the FSD beta program then you will continue to be offered the latest infotainment updates (there is no car feature to indicate whether you want to prioritize infotainment or autonomy). On the bright side, Tesla may have figured out a development process that allows them to continue to deliver the latest wide release of FSDb with the infotainment changes. So you could continue to get updates while keeping subscription access to FSDb 11.3.6.

Anyone who has firmware version 2023.12.10 is ahead of the people in the beta test program because they have the same autonomy software as well as the latest infotainment software. We're all hoping that Tesla can get to the point of keeping both sets of changes in synch in their updates so we all get the newest features.

Thank you. To clarify my understanding using your nomenclature, if 1) I am now in FSDb and subscribed, using 2023.12.10, and 2) later let the subscription lapse, and 3) subsequently offered to update infotainment, 4) but do not update (ignore the update), 5) and re-subscribe to FSD (while still on 2023.12.10 with FSDb 11.3.6):

--Will I be able toggle FSDb back on immediately?
--If a new autonomy update is released during my subscription period, will the update be offered to my car (in lieu of the infotainment update)?

 

[JB47394]

--Will I be able toggle FSDb back on immediately?

I would assume so, but Tesla may have remote controls that determine whether or not the FSDb button is active.

--If a new autonomy update is released during my subscription period, will the update be offered to my car?

It entirely depends on how Tesla wants to play it. They could offer everyone with 2023.12.10 a new version that has only infotainment updates, only autonomy updates, or both. None of us never know what we will be offered in the next update. I was surprised that there was an update based on the latest infotainment and the latest autonomy software (May 10: 2023.7.5 and 11.4.1). I really wanted to get that update, but Tesla paused it after offering to a small subset of owners.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Can you confirm on your car with FSD that when you select "AutoSteer (Beta)" it looks exactly like AutoSteer (beta) did before you got on the FSD-beta branch?

I guess I had assumed that since there was a new single-stack for highway and city in the beta branch that the beta software would also change the conventional Autosteer mode to use new visualizations etc (just limit the capabilities to steering rather than fully self driving)...

1. I can confirm my ego visualization is unchanged since we got FSDb, cuz I am not using FSDb in my profile. My husband's has selected FSDb and he gets the more detailed display.

2. Like you, I thought single stack removed the old NoA stack from my car and replaced it with a single stack for NoA and FSDb highway driving. That wasn't what tesla meant when in the release notes it said "this unifies the vision and planning stack on and off Highway and replaces the Legacy Highway stack which is over 4 years old." Confusing communication is the norm with Tesla.

 

[JulienW]

1. I can confirm my ego visualization is unchanged since we got FSDb, cuz I am not using FSDb in my profile. My husband's has selected FSDb and he gets the more detailed display.

2. Like you, I thought single stack removed the old NoA stack from my car and replaced it with a single stack for NoA and FSDb highway driving. That wasn't what tesla meant when in the release notes it said "this unifies the vision and planning stack on and off Highway and replaces the Legacy Highway stack which is over 4 years old." Confusing communication is the norm with Tesla.

While Tesla's communication is between poor and poorer the unified single Stack is about FSD Beta 11.x unifying Highway driving while on FSD Beta. Keep in mind the Notes you are reading this info are FSD Beta specific notes and NOT about standard AP.

I suspect in a year or so that AP will be on the new software stack. But it will be segregated stacks for a while until the Beta stack is more tested and improved.

 

[TK211X]

If you know that the FSDb subscription is going to lapse it’s better to switch it over manually prior to expiration. I had mine expire and it wouldn’t allow me to enable auto-steer for a long time until I slammed my head into the steering wheel 4 times and reinstalled FW twice.

 

[snovvman]

On related questions, scenario:

1) On FSDb and current FSD subscription - FSDb works
2) FSD subscription lapses, FSDb/FSD stops working, still on FSDb software release.
3) Question 1: On the next software release push, without FSD sub, I assume the software will be the non-FSD branch?
4) I do not update any non-FSD software and keep the FSD software that was installed during the subscription.
5) Newer version of FSDb branch is released.
6) I re-subscribe to FSD and enable FSDb.
7) Question 2 : Will I get the new FSDb software after re-subbing and enabling FSDb?

If the above scenario works, then one can stay on the FSDb branch and resubscribe periodically or as desired. This way, there is no need to juggle the different branches and having to wait for the next newer FSDb software if the car was updated to non-FSDb.

Thanks.

Edit: I guess I already asked a similar question in a earlier post. I welcome new insights, though.

 

[JB47394]

Question 1: On the next software release push, without FSD sub, I assume the software will be the non-FSD branch?

Tesla appears to be trying to keep the FSD beta test software as part of the stuff that they push to people who do not own FSD. So far, they've been using version 11.3.6. I expect them to continue to include whatever version of FSD beta that has "gone wide". They're trying to get both infotainment and FSD beta development in synch so that the FSD beta owners and FSD beta subscribers are each getting the latest and greatest software.

Question 2 : Will I get the new FSDb software after re-subbing and enabling FSDb?

The act of subscribing doesn't trigger an update, if that's what you're asking. You get updated software when you get it, and Tesla can take a couple weeks to get updates to all vehicles. Tesla knows who has subscribed to FSD, and I assume that counts in your favor for getting an earlier update. Tesla likes customers who give them money.

 

[snovvman]

The act of subscribing doesn't trigger an update, if that's what you're asking. You get updated software when you get it, and Tesla can take a couple weeks to get updates to all vehicles. Tesla knows who has subscribed to FSD, and I assume that counts in your favor for getting an earlier update. Tesla likes customers who give them money.

Thank you.

I was on a non-FSD track and was prompted to update to successive new releases over time. I did not update to any with the hope that FSDb would catch up to my software version. When I learned that 2023.12.10 with FSDb was released and it was a newer version than what was on my car, I subscribed to FSD and opted into FSDb. In a few hours, I was prompted to update to 2023.12.10 with FSDb (even though 2023.12.10 was an older version than what was on previously deck for my car when I did not have FSD). In my case, and the same for others that I have read about, while subscribing to FSD and opting FSDb did not directly correlate what what you would call "trigger an update" in terms of when, it did eventually trigger a change from the infotainment track to the FSDb track update (presuming the version is newer than what was on the car). This is what I was talking about.

So going back to my original question--if the car has the FSDb software installed but the subscription has lapsed and the car is later prompted to update to the infotainment track, but I resubscribe (while still on the older FSDb software), would the car, after some time, be prompted to install the newer FSDb release rather than the infotainment release--like the way I experienced and described in this post?

To clarify another way--I was not asking about when. Rather, I was asking if. Of course, the point would be moot if they merge the stacks and there is a single version that has infotainment and FSDb.