Behavior of latest FSD beta after subscription ends

[J-a-x]

My car has EAP and I want to try FSD beta. If I purchase a FSD subscription in the future I assume I can get into the beta program (once the 2023 FSD betas are going out at least).

I am wondering what happens if I install FSD-beta with an FSD subscription and then decide not to renew my FSD subscription. Is there any chance that when the subscription expires the FSD beta software would remain installed? If so, would it mean I'd now have the NEW unified highway stack for EAP instead of the legacy highway stack I'm using now but lose the FSD city driving features? Would I continue to get beta updates after my FSD-subscription expires?

Or does the car download the non-beta software or boot into the legacy stack once my subscription expires?

Basically I'm wondering what happens if I plan to try FSD-beta for just a month or two then end my subscription. Has anybody done this under the recent betas with the unified highway and city stack?

 

[EVRider-FL]

I believe you’ll still have the FSD Beta build until you get an update, but you won’t have access to FSD features. Probably the same as if you disabled FSD Beta on the Controls > Autopilot screen.

 

[J-a-x]

Does that mean I’d still have the latest beta navigate on auto pilot on highways since I have a EAP but not autopilot on city streets?

 

[JulienW]

Does that mean I’d still have the latest beta navigate on auto pilot on highways since I have a EAP but not autopilot on city streets?

There is NO latest Beta Navigate on AP. There is FSD Beta (that now includes all roads/driving) and legacy NoA. If you don't have FSD Beta (or have it cut off) then you have the same NoA.

 

[EVRider-FL]

There is NO latest Beta Navigate on AP. There is FSD Beta (that now includes all roads/driving) and legacy NoA. If you don't have FSD Beta (or have it cut off) then you have the same NoA.

FSD Beta v11 has its own version of NoA, which was the main change for v11.

To answer the OP’s question, when you disable FSD Beta in v11, NoA should revert to the legacy behavior. I haven’t tried that, but I think others have. Some people have created different profiles with FSD Beta enabled or disabled so they can easily turn it off when they want legacy behavior.

 

[JulienW]

FSD Beta v11 has its own version of NoA, which was the main change for v11....

It is not NoA. It is just FSD Beta extended to highway driving.

 

[JulienW]

You have to select Autosteer (Not FSD) to get NoA. When you select FSD then NoA disappears and is NOT available.

 

[Dewg]

You have to select Autosteer (Not FSD) to get NoA. When you select FSD NoA disappears and is NOT available.

View attachment 932096View attachment 932097

BTW, for those asking the question about subscribing to FSD, getting into the Beta, and then letting their sub lapse: this is what happens. The last button for Beta gets greyed out and you are placed on the Auto steer middle button.

 

[EVRider-FL]

It is not NoA. It is just FSD Beta extended to highway driving.

Semantics. The point is that prior to FSD Beta v11, FSD Beta switched to legacy NoA on the highway, and now it doesn’t.

 

[KArnold]

Semantics. The point is that prior to FSD Beta v11, FSD Beta switched to legacy NoA on the highway, and now it doesn’t.

Exactly. That's the idea of the single stack. Sure, it has new bugs. That's nothing new. The old AP is likely considered end-of-life by Tesla now.

 

[J-a-x]

Exactly. That's the idea of the single stack. Sure, it has new bugs. That's nothing new. The old AP is likely considered end-of-life by Tesla now.

Yeah this is what I was wondering. It’s single stack now so how can it revert to legacy when the subscription lapses like it used to? It seems to me that without a subscription the NoA in city would be disabled but since I paid in full for EAP it seems like NoA on highway (with new highway stack) should remain even with an expired subscription.

The only difference in EAP and FSD is navigate on autopilot in city and traffic light control.

If signing up for FSD means I’d risk losing my NoA on highway once the subscription expires (even though I paid in full for EAP) I definitely won’t try FSD-beta. I know some people get stuck on the beta branch for a while after their subscription expires so there’s definitely a chance to be on the beta branch with an expired subscription.

If signing up for FSD means I’d keep NoA on highway (with a new stack) once my subscription expires as part of EAP I’d definitely try it.

 

[gtg465x]

I really wish they would let you stay on the beta track, but keep installing beta updates when the subscription lapses. If you only want to subscribe once in a while, it’s such a huge pain, and not always possible to get back on beta software, unless you never install any updates when the subscription lapses.

 

[J-a-x]

I really wish they would let you stay on the beta track, but keep installing beta updates when the subscription lapses. If you only want to subscribe once in a while, it’s such a huge pain, and not always possible to get back on beta software, unless you never install any updates when the subscription lapses.

Right -if you get off the beta branch it may be hard to get back on until the version numbers align (beta version > version installed).

 

[JulienW]

Yeah this is what I was wondering. It’s single stack now so how can it revert to legacy when the subscription lapses like it used to? It seems to me that without a subscription the NoA in city would be disabled but since I paid in full for EAP it seems like NoA on highway (with new highway stack) should remain even with an expired subscription.

The only difference in EAP and FSD is navigate on autopilot in city and traffic light control.

If signing up for FSD means I’d risk losing my NoA on highway once the subscription expires (even though I paid in full for EAP) I definitely won’t try FSD-beta. I know some people get stuck on the beta branch for a while after their subscription expires so there’s definitely a chance to be on the beta branch with an expired subscription.

If signing up for FSD means I’d keep NoA on highway (with a new stack) once my subscription expires as part of EAP I’d definitely try it.

Again there is no such thing as FSD Beta with NoA/Autopilot since FSD Beta navigates to your location and is NOT Autopilot. FSD Beta and NoA/Autopilot are mutually exclusive. This is not semantics but facts. You have 2 software stacks on your car (see my pic) and you are driving on one or the other but NEVER a combination of both. The software stacks on your car are:

• FSD Beta software stack (nothing to do with NoA/Autopilot)
• Legacy NoA (Autopilot) software stack (nothing to do with FSD Beta)

So when you select Autosteer (in my pic) it completely switches to the legacy NoA/Autopilot software stack. If you are on the FSD Beta stack then all driving is done by that stack (nothing to do with NoA/Autopilot stack).

You seem to be wanting Tesla to write code to enable a version of FSD Beta to work on the highway only. Something like a FSD Beta on highways (FSDoH). They may and probably will eventually replace the legacy NoA/Autopilot stack with a reduced feature set version of FSD Beta limited to highway use only (and maybe a version that doesn't change lanes too). However that is likely at least year or more away.

So if you stop paying for the FSD Capability subscription you lose ALL access to FSD Beta and must sue the same NoA/Autopilot legacy software as everyone else.

 

[J-a-x]

So both stacks are installed simultaneously and the car will switch between them depending on subscription status even without a fresh software install?

• FSD Beta software stack (nothing to do with NoA/Autopilot)
• Legacy NoA (Autopilot) software stack (nothing to do with FSD Beta)

I thought switching between the two stacks required a software install and was only possible when versionToBeInstalled > versionCurrenetlyInstalled. So I had assumed that there might be a period when you had the FSD stack installed and then stopped paying but couldn’t revert back to the legacy stack yet until the version numbers align and Tesla pushed an update which I’ve found to be slow.

Seems like you’re saying if I install FSD beta it will use the FSD beta highway stack on highway when I’m subscribed and switch to the legacy stack on highway when not subscribed. So I could feasibly subscribe every other month and keep switching back and forth between stacks without needing to keep installing new software each time I go in and out of subscription?

I was under the understanding that this was the behavior of past betas, however, with new builds of FSD beta having a single stack, I was thinking you could no longer switch back-and-forth like that and that’s why I was wondering what to expect when a subscription lapses now that there’s a single stack.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Seems like you’re saying if I install FSD beta it will use the FSD beta highway stack on highway when I’m subscribed and switch to the legacy stack on highway when not subscribed. So I could feasibly subscribe every other month and keep switching back and forth between stacks without needing to keep installing new software each time I go in and out of subscription?

Correct, as long as you keep your FSD Beta build installed and don’t install any non-Beta builds.

 

[J-a-x]

Correct, as long as you keep your FSD Beta build installed and don’t install any non-Beta builds.

That confuses me, because someone was saying that if I stay on the FSD branch I go back to the legacy highway stack when not subscribed, so in that case whether I am running a beta or a release version, in all cases when unsubscribed I would be driving with the same legacy highway stack.

I'm not convinced that this is right but this is what I was told in this thread...

I want to test this myself but there's no way to test it since there's no public beta release of a 2023 FSD-beta version.

 

[JulienW]

That confuses me, because someone was saying that if I stay on the FSD branch I go back to the legacy highway stack when not subscribed, so in that case whether I am running a beta or a release version, in all cases when unsubscribed I would be driving with the same legacy highway stack.

I'm not convinced that this is right but this is what I was told in this thread...

I want to test this myself but there's no way to test it since there's no public beta release of a 2023 FSD-beta version.

Both are correct. FSD Beta contains BOTH software stacks and you can switch back and forth (I explained this already). If you stop your subscription you can no longer use the FSD Beta stack and only have access to the NoA stack.

If on FSD Beta just press the Autosteer button (see my pic) and you will switch to the NoA stack. Now press the Full Self Driving button and you will switch back on the FSD Beta stack. Stop paying and you are switched to the Autosteer NoA software stack and the Full Self Driving button is grayed out until you pay again.

 

[J-a-x]

Both Auto Steer and Full Self-Driving are listed as beta in that screenshot.

So I am fairly certain that if my Full Self-Driving subscription lapses, I'm forced to use Autosteer (Beta). That I agree on. But what does Autosteer Beta mean and how does it compared to plain vanilla Autosteer my brand new EAP car has? Is it identical?

It seems that Autosteer (Beta) would be different than the Autosteer I'm using right now on a regular software release. For example does Autosteer beta have the new highway stack, new behavior when passing trucks and during curves, new "FSD-like" visualizations or anything else different from the plain vanilla autosteer? If so then I get to keep some of the beta features even after my subscription expires which is really what I'm curious about...

 

[J-a-x]

Or am I wrong and the Autosteer I'm using now is actually beta as well, in which case maybe it is the same as the autosteer beta in the "beta software release".

If you enable AutoSteer beta on your car, does it use the same visualizations and driving behavior as the release version of Autosteer that somebody who bought a new 2023 car with EAP would have? Or does it give you some subset of the new FSD features?