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BMW i3

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For the i3, it's a nice place to put your mobile charger and extension cords, but there's not enough space for much else.

Exactly. We are not talking anything like the utility of the Model S frunk. It's really perfect for the portable EVSE (You could carry both a 120V and a 240V one) 100 feet or so of extension cords, a portable took kit (I always have one in my cars as well as a flashlight) adapters and the tire repair kit. That's all, but it's good that you won't have any of that stuff taking up space in the rear hatch area.

BTW, I did a blog post about the range extender today. There are still questions about it's usefulness so I tried to sort out what I could with the information currently available for those interested:
How Robust Will The i3 Range Extender Be?
 
I think the I3 is great for those people for whom the Tesla is too expensive. It is better looking than the LEAF and TCO will be great also.

There are lots of reasons people like one car over another that are individual specific, but as you say price is usually paramount. As hard as it is to believe, some people will like the appearance of the i3 better than the Model S, even though that seems unfathomable to most people. I can afford a Model S but just can't bring myself to drive such a large car when 95% of my driving is just me. The i3 will work perfectly for me for 3-4 years when BlueStar is ready. I believe 2017-2018 will be very interesting times for EV's.
 
I believe 2017-2018 will be very interesting times for EV's.
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Well said! I hope so too, Tom.

I was quite impressed with the presentation Lars Thomsen recently delivered at a conference in Graz, Austria. He verbalized very poignantly a few things the audience needed to hear, I believe, and mentioned Tesla and Elon a few times. Lars thinks that the next ten years, or 520 weeks as he likes to say, will be critical.

Here is a machine translation of the summary of this presentation.


 
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bmwi3mnl.gif
Well said! I hope so too, Tom.

I was quite impressed with the presentation Lars Thomsen recently delivered at a conference in Graz, Austria. He verbalized very poignantly a few things the audience needed to hear, I believe, and mentioned Tesla and Elon a few times. Lars thinks that the next ten years, or 520 weeks as he likes to say, will be critical.

Here is a machine translation of the summary of this presentation.



Luckily I still understand German and this presentation is really really excellent and spot-on. Thank you so much for posting it. I liked everything especially the analogy with the popcorn and the expensive wine.
 
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If range anxiety - which is very very real for Leaf users - consumes most of your interaction with your car, then none of those bells and whistles really matter.

Two months into the ownership all you want is for the car to take a little further and you will do whatever it takes to squeeze that 10 or even 5 extra miles.

For those who say they don't travel more than 40 miles in a day, then you are hardly in the car to get the benefit of those bells and whistles given that even occasional long distance travel is ruled out
 
Why would anyone pay $10k more than Leaf - for essentially the same range as the Leaf and with 2 less doors ?

For many of the same reasons that people buy BMW 1-series instead of, say, a Toyota Yaris. For more reasons than people that buy an Acura MDX over a Honda Pilot. The LEAF will likely remain a larger seller, but there are a lot of people very interested in the i3 - including many that would not consider a LEAF.

By the way, after a month of ownership to learn the car's capabilities, extremely few LEAF buyers have range anxiety (and most of the ones that do are victims of the "100-mile" false advertising; it's not an inherent problem with the car, but like all cars it doesn't work for everybody - the problem is that some dealers - and even Nissan initially - were setting up the uninformed for failure. That's not just a Nissan problem; at some Tesla stores you will still hear product specialists telling consumers that the Model S is a 300-mile car, which is going to cause some of them problems as well; we've seen a couple of examples on these forums. Consumers can easily have problems with new technology when they are misinformed as to its capabilities; that does not mean the technology itself is bad). I know many LEAF owners, including close friends and my father; and I used to have a car with similar range. If you're going near the edge of the LEAF's range, just take the other car. Every one of them uses the LEAF as their first car and does the vast majority of their driving with it. It is not complicated at all; it's just like having a Miata for commuting and fun, and taking the Explorer on Costco days. We did it for years with 0 problems and no fear.

Sure they all WANT more range to cover those rare long days, as they prefer driving the LEAF to their gas car. But they can all do the vast majority of their driving on electricity, yet still get everywhere they want to go and they never have to sweat getting there. Plus...the i3 has an optional range extender! Not only does that make it less scary to go to the edge of the battery's range and less necessary to keep it fully charged just in case, but it also means that a single-vehicle owner that doesn't take many trips (even with the range extender it's still not a good car for lots of really long trips) could consider it as an only car.

Plus BMW has put a lot of serious thought in to using sustainable materials and processes for the i3. Not many people buy based on that criteria, but it will help a few pick it over the LEAF.

The i3 is not for everybody, and there's a lot more BMW could do to make it more appealing. But there are a lot of people out there that it will work very well for as-is, and most of them are going to love it more than any other car they have ever owned.

Heck, as much as I dislike what Toyota has done with the Plug-in Prius (and as many owners as I've encountered that bought them out of ignorance of the alternatives), I have even encountered some very thoughtful owners of that car did that a careful analysis and determined it was the best car for them. As frustrating as it is for me that automakers are dragging their feet on going electric, I am still VERY glad there are a range of cars available. The i3 isn't groundbreaking, but it still offers a few things that others don't, and that's good. Merry Christmas to all of us!
 
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New i3 Electric Car Trickles To Market As BMW Worries About Quality - Forbes

Neil Winton
,

According to British newsletter Automotive Industry Data (AID), just over 400 new BMW i3s were sold in all of Western Europe in November.
“That’s a mere fraction of the earlier consensus expectations of some dedicated electric car market observers,” said AID editor Peter Schmidt.

Schmidt said total registrations by the end of November had reached 801 i3s, but this was mainly accounted for by press fleet vehicles and dealer demonstrators.
Schmidt said only 121 i3s were sold in Germany in November after sales started on the 16th.


BMW has said that it has 10,000 orders for the i3, but hasn’t said whether this is from genuine customers or dealers. BMW said full production capacity will be reached in March, but didn’t say what that was. Sales in the U.S. start in the second quarter of 2014.

All this comes at a price, with some analysts saying the i3 will lose BMW up to $270 million a year for five years. BMW says it will make money from day one.

In Germany the i3 after-tax price starts at the equivalent of $47,900, and $54,600 including the range-extender.
 
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No, I don't believe that the majority of i3 buyers will come from "other EVs"; most of them will be recruited from the ranks of ICE drivers. That said, the percentage of conquest buyers coming from other brands will be very significant. We have seen something similar with the LEAF in the past.

LEAF was the first serious attempt at a mass market BEV since GMs EV1. The I3 is not.
 
According to British newsletter Automotive Industry Data (AID), just over 400 new BMW i3s were sold in all of Western Europe in November. “That’s a mere fraction of the earlier consensus expectations of some dedicated electric car market observers,” said AID editor Peter Schmidt.
I think the sales numbers and production ramp up is comparable to what we have seen with the Zoe, which is priced very competitively, in part thanks to the battery rental scheme, and has been universally well received. Remember the slow start Tesla had with the Model S last winter and how Elon was personally tending to quality issues? It's easy to see the glass as half full.

In Germany the i3 after-tax price starts at the equivalent of $47,900, and $54,600 including the range-extender.
One thing to point out here is that German car prices include 19% VAT, whereas US prices do not reflect any sales tax. Considering this, the i3 has a lower MSRP in Germany than in the US. It's also optioned differently. This is evidenced by the premium one has to pay over the base model LEAF, which is about 17% in Germany, and 43% in the US.

While it could be OK to start high, especially if supply remains tight, BMW might want to consider a more affordable entry point for the i3. We had a similar debate over this on the LEAF forum, and I recall arguing for a stripper version of the LEAF. Not all drivers will need and look for a navigation or infotainment system in a commuter vehicle for example.

If a similar optioning and price differential relative to the LEAF was considered, base MSRP could be around $34,000 in the future. It's easy to gripe about pricing, which IMHO will be the Achilles heel of EVs in the near future. It might be worth recalling the criticism Apple faced with the original iPod.

Indeed, many said it was over-priced and under-powered.

"Apple has introduced a product that's neither revolutionary nor breakthrough, and they've priced it so high that it's reminiscent of the Cube," a post on MacSlash said.

The message then offered some ideas for what "iPod" might stand for. These won't make Jobs happy: "I Pretend it's an Original Device," it suggested, or "idiots Price Our Devices."

Sound familiar?

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LEAF was the first serious attempt at a mass market BEV since GMs EV1. The I3 is not.
Yes, but this does not imply much about where the majority of buyers will be recruited from. Remember, EV sales in Europe have been anything but a tiny sliver. While a significant percentage of LEAF and Volt buyers have indicated interest in the i3 here in the US, I believe that the majority of owners will come from an ICE. As is the case with any other plugin vehicle on the market.

We are still at the very beginning of EV adoption. I think it's really silly to view a new entrant standoffishly, point out that it offers nothing new, and will most likely only harm existing product offerings. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I believe that has been the underlying tone of much of the debate in this thread.
 
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Showed my wife the BMW track video above. Her verbatim comment: "It looks like a snowplow."

I rest my case; WHAT were their stylists thinking?!

+1 :smile: My wife had exactly the same response.

Mind you at least she came on the test drive with me (and agreed it felt and sounded good and looked great on the inside ) ... contrast that with when I'd booked a test drive in a Leaf ..... she wouldn't even go in it !!
Much to my embarrassment and that of the Nissan Sales guy .. "there is NO WAY we'd have a car as ugly as that" :biggrin: