BMW i8

[dsm363]

The i8 product chief says this is not a track sports car either.
2014 BMW i8 plug-in hybrid: High performance but with a conscienceLos Angeles Times

At the press launch last week in Santa Monica, Henrik Wenders, i8 project manager, sought to clearly distinguish the i8 from such high-end sports cars.

"If you want to improve your lap time on the track, buy another car. It's an i, not an M," he said, referring to BMW's performance line.

Also, this story at least says the sound is prerecord. It sounds like BMW told the reporter something different than how you understand the sound to happen.

It also pipes the engine's divine whir into the cabin — in a way the company calls "augmented." BMW prerecorded the i8's best engine noises. When driven in Sport mode, the car plays this sonic mixture through its speaker systems.

Of course, this is ridiculous and fake, and represents everything that's wrong with the future of motoring. But it sounds so good that you feel dirty and cheap for loving it.

Again, you live in a very different world. I have zero range anxiety on a normal day as I don't have a 200+ mile daily commute or have to drive at 130mph. You do apparently. The Model S will not overheat on normal or even spirited street driving. Yes, the track is a different circumstance and an ICE will outperform the Model S here.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I am certain even Tesla had someone working on the Model S noise impression. Because it is certainly not silent.

?
mine is silent besides the tire chirping sounds

The I8 is AWD, that is awesome. front Drive or rear, pretty cool. 700 kg lighter...2 door car, little space, I hope so.
when the battery is low and power is weak that sucks. I thought the I3 was pretty slow and this is maybe the reason.
The S still has decent power even down to 10%soc. still probably 5.8s 0-60

range anxiety? car is always charged, no need to look at a gas gauge and plan for filling it
gas station, eww, yuck. silly R

 

[brianman]

This sounds a lot like the discussion about the Fisker Karma. Just replace "pretty" (Fisker) with ___ (I'm not sure what, maybe Realist can help me fill it in).

 

[dsm363]

If someone gave me an i8 and the garage space I'd absolutely get one. Very cool looking car but it is a secondary car for most people. Hardly a family car for most families at least but then again, it's supposed to be a sports car. Problem is there are sports cars for a lot less money that do better. You get the i8, like the Fisker, because you want a car that looks great and has a touch of Eco green in it.

 

[ecarfan]

The system actually filters and alters the original frequencies from the 3-cyl. engine. There is not additional soundtrack or fake sound.

What you describe is indeed "fake". Your reasoning is illogical. ICEs produce sounds that are inherent in their design. EVs also produce sounds, but at much lower levels. Manufacturers design their cars to reduce those sound levels because they are unpleasant: no one wants to listen to an ICE with no muffler (though of course mufflers are "tuned", a mechanical design process). Very few manufacturers add engine noises through the speakers.

As stated in the LA Times article, BMW does fake the i8 engine sound by sending stored audio files of the engine sound through the cars audio system to make the occupants perceive a different sound than the one the engine inherently makes. Why? Obviously because the inherent sound of the engine doesn't fit with our expectation of the car based on its appearance and it would negatively impact our opinion of the i8.

Which is kind of pathetic.

The i8 looks striking and cool. That seems to be its principle attribute (which is not to say that is it's only attribute). I am disappointed that BMW could not do better with their first PHEV. I think that is the correct acronym for the i8 but I could be wrong. I am confident that BMW will do better in the future. The company is certainly putting a lot of resources into their "i" series.

 

[JST]

Maybe you should read into the i8's details.....

I can charge this car with the gas engine while cruising. Therefore the electric range is much higher than the claimed 40km which only refers to maximum range after charging stationary.

No it won't be as efficent as pure electric car. Nethertheless, with the Tesla range anxiety is you 24hour enemy. Push the accelerator and you lose range fast. You cannot ignore that.

In the i8 this problem is irrelevant because you have the choice anytime. You will always have a gas Station next to you if you need it. Therefore you can ask for true perfomance more often.

Anyway, it's ridiculous to bash on the i8's performance drop with depleted batteries. It will still be lot faster than the Model S with it's pathetic overheating issue, no question.

I am not comparing it to the Model S--frankly, I think that's kind of silly. The Model S is an entirely different kind of car. Yes, the Model S has range issues, but if I want to carry more than one other person, I'm not buying an i8. The Model S is our large family car--the i8, of course, couldn't be. And that's before we even talk about the price difference.

I am comparing the i8 to the 991 4S, because I find that it comes up wanting on literally every single measure. It's slower, it's smaller, it has less luggage space, it cannot handle as well, and--the kicker--at least in the US it costs a LOT more.

Tesla has taught us that you sell electric cars by building electric cars that do things that gas cars can't. Are they perfect? No, of course not. They have trade-offs. But they have a range of attributes that similarly sized and priced gas cars just don't have, not least being the ability to seat 5 (or 7, if you have kids).

BMW is repeating an old play, trying to sell us an alternative fuel car that does nothing that a similar gas-only car can't do. Yes, it gets better gas mileage (sort of, depending on how hard you cane it), but how is this attribute relevant to the broader market for $140,000 sporty cars? Does ANYONE decide which $140,000 sporty car to buy based on gas mileage? Particularly when the 991 actually gets pretty decent mileage using it's very traditional powerplant?

No. They don't. Or, rather, some might, just because the i8 is a new piece of eco-jewelry. But it does very, very little to advance the cause of either hybrid powerplants or gas-free motoring.

If I were a BMW shareholder, I'd have some real questions about why the money was spent on an i8, rather than an i5.

 

[Johan]

I agree with what most point out as flaws and sucesses if the i8. As a TSLA shareholder I'm glad BMW didn't do the i5 BEV but instead this concept PHEV. One thing I find pretty amazing is the performance of the 3 cylinder 1.5 liter ICE. To me, honestly, that little thing is the most impressive aspect of the car.

 

[dsm363]

A real effort at a 200+ mile i5 EV would be real competition to the Model S as long as it had access to a DC charging standard with stations between cities (Tesla Superchargers only at the moment) . The i8 isn't.

 

[JST]

You know what impresses me a lot more than the i8?

This Volvo:

The 2015 Volvo XC90 Has 400 HP And Is Cleaner Than A Prius

What's even more exciting though is the T8 model. It's a seven-seater plug-in hybrid with four-wheel drive, ultra low emissions and a combined output of 400 horsepower and 472 pound-feet of torque.

The two-liter, four-cylinder supercharged and turbocharged petrol engine powering the front wheels gets help from an 80 hp electric motor sending power to the rear wheels. For city cruising, it has an all-electric range of around 25 miles, turning the XC90 into an emission-free rear-wheel drive SUV.

I mean, that's actually worth something.

 

[Denarius]

No it won't be as efficent as pure electric car. Nethertheless, with the Tesla range anxiety is you 24hour enemy. Push the accelerator and you lose range fast. You cannot ignore that.

I'm a member of my local Ferrari Owners Club, and we take club drives once or twice a month. Usually these are along winding mountain roads at high speed for a couple of hours. In those scenarios I usually pull 180 miles out of a full charge, and I've never had an issue with performance. If you think in this scenario that you are going to be able to maintain that performance in your I8 I think you are in for a rude awakening. You are not going to be able to maintain that level of performance WHILE charging your battery backup. Either the power is going to the wheels, or the generator.

Also, I have only had range anxiety twice in 25k miles of Tesla ownership, which is less than the number of times I've had range anxiety in my old ICE. Now that I've got superchargers along my longer routes, I doubt I will have anxiety again.

Anyway, it's ridiculous to bash on the i8's performance drop with depleted batteries. It will still be lot faster than the Model S with it's pathetic overheating issue, no question.

See above. I've only had my power output limited once on one of those drives, and only for a few seconds. Unless you are literally at the track the Model S is not going to limit your power. The i8s performance drop after just 5 0-60mph runs is significant. I believe the i8 is going to fare even worse at the track.

 

[JRP3]

I can charge this car with the gas engine while cruising. Therefore the electric range is much higher than the claimed 40km which only refers to maximum range after charging stationary.

All you're doing is inefficiently using gasoline, decreasing the ICE range, and not really increasing the electric range.

 

[Denarius]

Combine all this with the fact that the my Model S seats 7, vs the i8s 2, cost me $15k less, and still has massive amounts of trunkspace, plus a 17" touch panel. There really is no comparison.

But hey, the i8 is very beautiful.

 

[brianman]

Unless you are literally at the track the Model S is not going to limit your power.

Disagree.

Unless you are literally at the track the Model S is not going to limit your power under anywhere near normal driving conditions.

Agree.

- - - Updated - - -

This sounds a lot like the discussion about the Fisker Karma. Just replace "pretty" (Fisker) with ___ (I'm not sure what, maybe Realist can help me fill it in).

But hey, the i8 is very beautiful.

Hm...

This sounds a lot like the discussion about the Fisker Karma. Just replace "pretty" (Fisker) with "beautiful".

 

[Realist]

For years sportscar engineering has only gone in one direction. Make it faster, give it wider tires to add grip instead of reducing weight. Just about any sportscar nowadays in the region above 50.000$ has sky high performance levels which are almost impossible to explore on the open road. The racetrack is another story but on a day to day basis, very few sportscars are actually engaging to drive.
A 2014 Porsche 911 works supreme on a track but how far do you have to push this car in a barely legal environment? Of course a Tesla Model S corners excellent, but do you really need these big wheels? Especially in an electric car with very low performance on a track. Why do you have to put so much weight on the wheels? It doesn’t make sense to me, because 99% of the time you will not corner the Model S right on it’s limit. Not even close.

Both the i3 and the i8 point into another direction. These cars are all about feedback, control, driver integration and design. The i8 is not about speed and grip. It is a bold, new approach. The i8 has 195/215 rims, the center of gravity is extremely low, weight balance is perfect. Still you have the instant, spontaneous throttle respond exactly like in the Model S. I have driven behind an i8 2 times and the instant surge out of slow corners is equal to a Model S or a very big displacement gasoline powered car.

So altogether the i8’s driving experience is entirely different to a Porsche 911 and there is more. The carbon chassis is extremely rigid and stiff. The steering feel should be unique. I believe the i8 will deliver an entirely new driving experience and unmatched range of talents aside from it’s mpg levels.

 

[JST]

For years sportscar engineering has only gone in one direction. Make it faster, give it wider tires to add grip instead of reducing weight. Just about any sportscar nowadays in the region above 50.000$ has sky high performance levels which are almost impossible to explore on the open road. The racetrack is another story but on a day to day basis, very few sportscars are actually engaging to drive.
A 2014 Porsche 911 works supreme on a track but how far do you have to push this car in a barely legal environment? Of course a Tesla Model S corners excellent, but do you really need these big wheels? Especially in an electric car with very low performance on a track. Why do you have to put so much weight on the wheels? It doesn’t make sense to me, because 99% of the time you will not corner the Model S right on it’s limit. Not even close.

Both the i3 and the i8 point into another direction. These cars are all about feedback, control, driver integration and design. The i8 is not about speed and grip. It is a bold, new approach. The i8 has 195/215 rims, the center of gravity is extremely low, weight balance is perfect. Still you have the instant, spontaneous throttle respond exactly like in the Model S. I have driven behind an i8 2 times and the instant surge out of slow corners is equal to a Model S or a very big displacement gasoline powered car.

So altogether the i8’s driving experience is entirely different to a Porsche 911 and there is more. The carbon chassis is extremely rigid and stiff. The steering feel should be unique. I believe the i8 will deliver an entirely new driving experience and unmatched range of talents aside from it’s mpg levels.

Chances are I will never drive one, so I will have to take the word of those that do, but "BMW" and "steering feel" have been on divergent courses for quite a while now. It will take a hell of a lot more than skinny tires to reverse that slide, and my suspicion (based on all the "don't buy the i expecting it to be an M" quotes I've seen) is that the i8 isn't biased that way, anyway.

Moreover, what you are describing is not, in fact, a new approach. It's a somewhat different approach, but it's not new. See, e.g., the Lotus Elise, Exige, etc., or Mazda Miata (in the lower parts of the price spectrum). More recently, the Alfa Romeo 4C exemplifies what you are talking about.

But if the recipe is "simplify and add lightness" to engage driver involvement, one really odd ingredient to put in is an entirely separate hybrid powertrain.

We'll see. The i8 is a very low production vehicle. I doubt that they'll have much trouble selling the handful that they plan to make, purely based on novelty. But I stand by my original assessment--the i8, on paper at least, offers nothing at all that a 911 (or, perhaps, a Lotus Evora) doesn't, except complexity and gee-whiz styling.

 

[qwk]

For years sportscar engineering has only gone in one direction. Make it faster, give it wider tires to add grip instead of reducing weight. Just about any sportscar nowadays in the region above 50.000$ has sky high performance levels which are almost impossible to explore on the open road. The racetrack is another story but on a day to day basis, very few sportscars are actually engaging to drive.
A 2014 Porsche 911 works supreme on a track but how far do you have to push this car in a barely legal environment? Of course a Tesla Model S corners excellent, but do you really need these big wheels? Especially in an electric car with very low performance on a track. Why do you have to put so much weight on the wheels? It doesn’t make sense to me, because 99% of the time you will not corner the Model S right on it’s limit. Not even close.

Both the i3 and the i8 point into another direction. These cars are all about feedback, control, driver integration and design. The i8 is not about speed and grip. It is a bold, new approach. The i8 has 195/215 rims, the center of gravity is extremely low, weight balance is perfect. Still you have the instant, spontaneous throttle respond exactly like in the Model S. I have driven behind an i8 2 times and the instant surge out of slow corners is equal to a Model S or a very big displacement gasoline powered car.

So altogether the i8’s driving experience is entirely different to a Porsche 911 and there is more. The carbon chassis is extremely rigid and stiff. The steering feel should be unique. I believe the i8 will deliver an entirely new driving experience and unmatched range of talents aside from it’s mpg levels.

So now when faced with the fact that every similarly priced performance ICE vehicle spanks the i8 in every category, your defense is the very thing you dogged the Model S for? Unbelievable.

Face it, the i8 is a Fisker reborn. Nothing less, nothing more. It is mediocre in every category that sports cars are graded upon.

 

[brianman]

So now when faced with the fact that every similarly priced performance ICE vehicle spanks the i8 in every category, your defense is the very thing you dogged the Model S for? Unbelievable.

Face it, the i8 is a Fisker reborn. Nothing less, nothing more. It is mediocre in every category that sports cars are graded upon.

Heh, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Realist]

How can you compare the Fisker with the i8? The Fisker is massive, it’s 700kg heavier than the BMW. Everything in this car is pure old tech. I could argue in the same way and claim that the Model S is essentially a bigger Renault Zoe. These cars have nothing in common and comparing them is pure ignorance.
A Lotus Evora has been my daily driver for 3 years and 90.000km. The i8 is completely, entirely different. It does a lot more things much better.
And finally just get one fact straight: The BMW i8 is faster than the Model S. Anywhere, anytime. Just live with it folks.

 

[qwk]

How can you compare the Fisker with the i8? The Fisker is massive, it’s 700kg heavier than the BMW. Everything in this car is pure old tech. I could argue in the same way and claim that the Model S is essentially a bigger Renault Zoe. These cars have nothing in common and comparing them is pure ignorance.
A Lotus Evora has been my daily driver for 3 years and 90.000km. The i8 is completely, entirely different. It does a lot more things much better.
And finally just get one fact straight: The BMW i8 is faster than the Model S. Anywhere, anytime. Just live with it folks.

The Model S has 3+ times the room, range and power of the Zoe. Only a fool would compare the two. Would you also compare the fiat 500 ICE to an M5? No, because that is insanity.

BTW, the only performance category that the i8 beats the Model S in is top speed. That makes the Model S pretty damn impressive because it does it without having an ICE on board. The same cannot be said for the i8, which means that the i8 is pretty sad for an ICE performance vehicle. The Karma is also a sad ICE performer. Weight and number of doors is the only difference.

 

[brianman]

And finally just get one fact straight: The BMW i8 is faster than the Model S. Anywhere, anytime. Just live with it folks.

I'm confused by this then:
- Top speed fully electric in km/h: 120 (vs. > 200)
- Acceleration from 0–60 km/h on purely electric power in seconds: 4.5 (I think even a non-Perf beats this)
- Acceleration from 0–100 km/h in: 4.4 (Perf beats this)

BMW i8 : Technical data