BMW may have given AWD owners some good news

[Eno Deb]

I have to say based on the announcements the new 3 series looks great to me. Improved suspension with novel "lift related" dampers, 0.26 cw due to sealed underbody and other optimizations, cleaned up and modernized interior with digital instrument cluster, acoustic glass all around, and a nice collection of driver assist features including some that Tesla doesn't have. Also some neat tricks like being able to automatically backtrace a path in reverse (e.g. to get out of tricky parking situations). If only they had a fully electric drive train ...

 

[Knightshade]

Lots of little tricks have been developed by professional ICE drivers to better their 0-60 times.

Reducing drive tire pressures, putting Ice on the intake manifold and turbo, turning off AC. brake torquing, reving up engine and dropping it into drive, manually shifting to optimize times, stabbing throttle, anticipation of light, better understanding of the lights and deep or shallow staging, preping the starting line surface. making runs at optimum temperature/barometic pressures, running below sea level, keeping the steering wheel arrow straight...

So many things effect the performance of an ICE engine. For an EV...just snap floor the pedal.

Most of those things are used for 1/4 mile times- not 0-60 times, and many are only useful for a manual transmission- a device that is largely an antique anymore for performance purposes.

Some aren't even useful with a manual.


For example the AC turns off automatically on most modern cars when you floor them- no need to do it yourself (but no harm either).

Ice on the intake is only useful for later runs when the engine is heated up from from previous ones- not for a normal test/first run where the motor is fairly cold.

Manually shifting (on a modern automatic/DC sports car) makes the car slower- and often by a lot. Nobody is faster than a computer.


Anticipating the light doesn't matter at all for 0-60 times- the timer doesn't start until you break the second beam.



That's not to say NOTHING helps.... but you don't really need to be a "pro" for those things... for example staging can impact how much rollout you have, so you always want to shallow stage to improve times.... deep staging only makes sense if you're genuinely racing the car next to you and need to get to the finish line first and don't care about the measured numbers.

By the same token there's things an EV can do to impact times as well- like high SoC vs low.

 

[Gavyne]

We do know Model 3 will get an air suspension option upgrade in 2019, so perhaps Tesla is already working on a Performance+ package with better track tires and more hp?

 

[GregRF]

I was more interested in how the new BMW 3 series is getting an identical Cd.

I have a hard time believing that. I'll believe it after independent testing. Sort of like when Mercedes claimed the CLA had a .23, but independent wind tunnel testing showed .3!

 

[Eno Deb]

I have a hard time believing that. I'll believe it after independent testing. Sort of like when Mercedes claimed the CLA had a .23, but independent wind tunnel testing showed .3!

What I read is that the CLA's 0.23 is accurate for the european version, but cannot be replicated on the US model since they stripped some features such as the automatic grille shutters to lower cost in the US market.

It would surprise me if the BMW figures weren't accurate. The 3 series had pretty good aerodynamics before, and the 2019 model added a sealed underbody, air curtains and probably other optimizations.

 

[GregRF]

What I read is that the CLA's 0.23 is accurate for the european version, but cannot be replicated on the US model since they stripped some features such as the automatic grille shutters to lower cost in the US market.

It would surprise me if the BMW figures weren't accurate. The 3 series had pretty good aerodynamics before, and the 2019 model added a sealed underbody, air curtains and probably other optimizations.

My eyeball windtunnel says that rear window rake is too steep for air separation not to occur.

Not like the clean Kamm tail shape of the model 3:

 

[jkirkwood001]

Hopefully BMW designs a huge ad campaign around how it's new 3 series is faster than the model 3, just to really incentivise Tesla to do something about that

Interesting to imagine the marketing meetings happening now at BMW and others. Clearly, Jaguar indirectly acknowledged the front-runner in their latest ads where they say "We didn't invent electric cars, but..." Is BMW ready to acknowledge (in their ads) that they aren't the leader in this segment any more and are now the challenger to new-kid-on-the-block Tesla?

 

[SageBrush]

Do you need to be a professional driver to floor the pedal 0-60 with automatic transmission?

No, but the automatic transmission will incur delays shifting gears and it is probably not programmed for optimal 0-60 times. I cannot remember details (sorry), but I watched a race on youtube the other day between a Tesla and another car with identical 0-60 specs that the Tesla easily won. The difference was easy to see, related to gear shifting.

 

[ebmcs03]

Man. No love for the crappy RWD model 3. Slowest of the bunch. Might be just as fast falling off the cliff.

 

[MP3Mike]

We do know Model 3 will get an air suspension option upgrade in 2019, so perhaps Tesla is already working on a Performance+ package with better track tires and more hp?

Don't you mean the Performance++ package? (There is already a Performance+ package.)

 

[Stirfelt]

I'd love to own a "crappy RWD model 3" at a reasonable price.

I am not putting-down owners interested in 0-60 ...... once I was one.
I'm old enough to recall when the 55 Chevy went from 0-60 in 10 seconds flat!! Hard to imagine.

My point is there are many of us that want a beautiful, well mannered, comfortable, EV ..........
whose first trip is NOT to the SC to correct defects.

 

[JeffK]

Also some neat tricks like being able to automatically backtrace a path in reverse (e.g. to get out of tricky parking situations).

Should note summon will also retrace its steps if it originally navigated around an obstacle.

 

[Knightshade]

No, but the automatic transmission will incur delays shifting gears and it is probably not programmed for optimal 0-60 times. I cannot remember details (sorry), but I watched a race on youtube the other day between a Tesla and another car with identical 0-60 specs that the Tesla easily won. The difference was easy to see, related to gear shifting.

But the computer does the shifting on an auto. So being a "pro" driver makes 0 difference there.

 

[Eno Deb]

Should note summon will also retrace its steps if it originally navigated around an obstacle.

Well, not quite the same thing. Summon can barely avoid obstacles in the first place. Usually it just stops when it detects something in it's path. The BMW system can retrace paths that were previously "recorded" by the human driver. Here's a video showing it in the new X5:

Not sure how often I would use it, but a pretty cool trick.

 

[JeffK]

Well, not quite the same thing. Summon can barely avoid obstacles in the first place. Usually it just stops when it detects something in it's path. The BMW system can retrace paths that were previously "recorded" by the human driver. Here's a video showing it in the new X5:

Not sure how often I would use it, but a pretty cool trick.

Should petition Tesla for this feature. They're already logging the necessary inputs.

 

[SageBrush]

But the computer does the shifting on an auto. So being a "pro" driver makes 0 difference there.

Hmm. Are you saying that a driver cannot over-ride the computer ?

 

[1.21GW]

Manually shifting (on a modern automatic/DC sports car) makes the car slower- and often by a lot. Nobody is faster than a computer.

if you're genuinely racing the car next to you and need to get to the finish line first and don't care about the measured numbers.
.

All I could read was

“ you were granny shifting and not double clutching like you should have”

“It doesn’t matter if you win by an inch or a mile”

 

[Knightshade]

Hmm. Are you saying that a driver cannot over-ride the computer ?

I'm saying he's an idiot if he tries to when racing 0-60 in an automatic.

The computer is a lot faster than he is. No matter how "professional" he might be.

See also how virtually every performance car made is slower with a manual transmission in it and has been for years at this point.

Controlling your gears is awesome when you're having to do things like go in and out of turns... but from 0 to speed in a straight line? Great way to run a crappy time.

 

[Sg911]

Model 3 P 18” swapped wheels from performance 20’s- video 0-60 3.12 !
3.00 second futures... no shorts!

 

[ebmcs03]

Model 3 P 18” swapped wheels from performance 20’s- video 0-60 3.12 !
3.00 second futures... no shorts!

Not bad!

Does the RWD perform better than 5.1?