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Bolt EV: 2017 Motor Trend Car of the Year

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This has been rehashed over so many times, but is worth repeating since the Bolt has now gotten a major award...

The Bolt is a solution in search of a problem. There are two things that are keeping EV's from getting over 1% of the total new vehicle market. Those two things are: 1) lack of range, 2) lack of long distance fast charging network.

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Until GM starts building the nationwide Supercharger network like Tesla did, the Bolt remains a niche product, because most people will not be buying a car that can't do long distance travel.
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3) Others will expand battery production to compete with Tesla Gigafactory, but it will take time. Tesla can produce more EV's than GM at least in next few years.

First there has to be charging standard for at least 100 kW charging. Then charging network. Then battery must be able to receive 100 kW.

-> Bolt does not offer serious competition for Tesla.



There are more short range EV's than long range EV's on the road today.

There are much more cars < 50 000 $ than cars > 50 000 $. Relative to its price class Tesla sells much more than others. Short range EV's will not be really successful.


Technically it was Nissan who created the new age of EV's. Not playthings for the wealthy, but a practical family car that did not have a gas engine.
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Would they have done that without Tesla Roadster?



I'm in Europe and I think for the normal consumer it's whats available where you are. Opel, Renault, VW etc are within 15 minutes distance here, Tesla is a 5 hour round trip to the store/service center. This could change when we get closer to the Model 3 launch though.

This is biggest problem for Tesla.
 
I'm in Europe and I think for the normal consumer it's whats available where you are. Opel, Renault, VW etc are within 15 minutes distance here, Tesla is a 5 hour round trip to the store/service center. This could change when we get closer to the Model 3 launch though.

It might be that Opel, Renault, VW, etc, NEED to be near a service center. My Tesla seemed never to need service, and if I needed Tesla to look at something, I would plan to stop by "next time" I might be in the area. Yeah, the SC is 4 hours RT. But that's no reason to buy a VW or (shudder) Renault.
 
McRat said:
"Technically it was Nissan who created the new age of EV's. Not playthings for the wealthy, but a practical family car that did not have a gas engine."

Practical family cars sell 200k-500k units per year in the US.

Not 15k-30k per year in the US.

The first generation LEAF is a car for hairy shirt environmentalist willing to suffer with the LEAF's short comings and for wealthy* 2+ new car families that can afford a gimped electric car as their second or third car.


* Families with two new car payments are not necessarily in the top 1% but they are in the top 30%.
 
If they're only making 30,000, can we assume these will never be delivered?
Many or most Chevrolet dealers taking Bolt EV orders are taking custom orders and then ordering any remaining "allocations" with features the dealer wants to put on the lot as inventory cars.

GM issues new ordering allocations to their dealers every 2 weeks and not every dealer will get an allocation for every model each time. When they get new additional Bolt allocations many dealers will be happy to place new custom orders.

As a practical matter, dealers today seem to be selling custom ordered Bolt EVs at MSRP but will negotiate discounted sales in the future. Inventory cars may be marked up today to cover the dealer's cost of keeping them in inventory and because they are not semi-guaranteed turnaround sales the way custom orders are. In the future, inventory cars may be discounted if production exceeds demand.
 
It might be that Opel, Renault, VW, etc, NEED to be near a service center. My Tesla seemed never to need service, and if I needed Tesla to look at something, I would plan to stop by "next time" I might be in the area. Yeah, the SC is 4 hours RT. But that's no reason to buy a VW or (shudder) Renault.

What's that comment about Renault supposed to mean? Have you had one yourself in, say, the last twenty years? What was wrong with it?
Renault cars are great. Well designed and built, stylish, economical, you name it. Just look at the Zoe. At that price point you won't be able to find a better BEV, at least not over here.
 
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Lots of sour grapes here. Tesla's mission is to expand market share of EVs. Congratulations to GM on what to me looks like a very competitive vehicle. I hope they sell a million of them.

I would give this a like and a dislike if I could. I hope they sell a million as well. Maybe there are some sour grapes here but there are others here that find rational issues with the product.
No AWD option and no reasonable long distance capability mean I cannot get this vehicle. As far as the only other negative in my perspective is that it won an award and hasn't even seen a single delivery yet. Doesn't really make sense to me.
 
Lots of sour grapes here. Tesla's mission is to expand market share of EVs. Congratulations to GM on what to me looks like a very competitive vehicle. I hope they sell a million of them.

I think you are misreading the sentiment here (certainly for me). It is competitive with a 2017 Leaf, but not with a Model 3. I want EVs to succeed, but that means I need to be critical of all cars that I think miss the mark. Think of the criticism as the list of things GM needs to do to succeed (in my estimation).

1) They need to think of EVs as regular cars. That means they get normal design criteria, not "weirdmobile".
2) The car must be part of a comprehensive transportation plan for average families. The age of the 100 mile range EV is well over. It doesn't necessarily mean that they must make superchargers, but they need a plan for how they are going to achieve that functionality.
3) The car needs to be made to succeed. Losing money on each, and making it up by 'haloing' or ZEV credits is not going to work. Nor will planning on only making 30,000 of them.
4) Battery guarantees should inspire confidence, not reduce it.

Thank you kindly.

p.s. look up what 'sour grapes' means.
 
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No AWD option and no reasonable long distance capability mean I cannot get this vehicle.
Okay. But, many car models do not have an AWD option. And, from what we know today, the Bolt EV is indeed capable of weekend getaways that involve an initial full overnight charge followed by one or two DC charges and perhaps an overnight destination charge.

At a minimum, GM says it can add 90 miles in 30 minutes or 160 miles in an hour when faster CCS chargers become available starting next year. They have declined so far to say what the peak charge rates are or what it might be capable of beyond that but we will know that as 200+ amp chargers become available for testing.

Car and Driver says they were able to drive 190 miles at 75 mph so the Bolt EV certainly has enough reasonable range (relative to today's Tesla standard) for long distance driving between recharges.

As far as the only other negative in my perspective is that it won an award and hasn't even seen a single delivery yet.
Like other cars preceeding it. Yes, you don't like the well-established award rules. Okay then.

1) They need to think of EVs as regular cars. That means they get normal design criteria, not "weirdmobile".
The Bolt EV is not a weirdmobile. It has a long-established and mainstream hatchback design form.

2) The car must be part of a comprehensive transportation plan for average families. The age of the 100 mile range EV is well over. It doesn't necessarily mean that they must make superchargers, but they need a plan for how they are going to achieve that functionality.
The reality is that BMW, Daimler, VW, and Ford announced last week a plan to install "thousands" of high-speed CCS chargers including 350 kW units at around 400 locations throughout Europe starting in 2017 in addition to the many which are already there. The Opel Ampera-e will be capable of charging at those stations.

In the US, VW is committed to spend an average of $200 million per year for the next 10 years on zero emissions infrastructure and related efforts as part of their dieselgate court settlement. Much of that will likely go towards highway corridor DC charging. VW has a self-interest in buiding out a nationwide CCS Supercharger-like network in order to compete when their first long-range capable Audi e-tron comes out in 2018 and is followed by a number of other big battery cars from the VW group. The Bolt EV will be capable of using these charging stations which are required to be brand neutral.

GM doesn't need to do anything in the US to enable a nationwide highway fast charging system. VW will do it for them. They just put their initial planning feedback site online today -- a high-speed highway corridor network and no initial investments in hydrogen stations! Also, metro area stations in 15 areas currently underserved and a CA "green city" model initiative.

Welcome to Electrify America | Commitment

3) The car needs to be made to succeed. Losing money on each, and making it up by 'haloing' or ZEV credits is not going to work. Nor will planning on only making 30,000 of them.
That story is based on anonymous sources and the underlying assumptions and basis for those claims were not described meaning that it is largely FUD. These claims may be based in part on amortizing fixed R&D and initial factory investment costs (robots, sheet metal stamping equipment, etc.) over an assumed number of vehicles and period of time. Notably, the story therefore does not claim that GM incurs increasing losses as more Bolts are manufactured.

GM has said on the record that their supplier agreements allow them to build at least 50,000 Bolts per year. New battery plants can be built or expanded within a 2-3 year timeframe. If demand for Bolts is strong there should be time to increase battery manufacturing capability within its first generation timeframe.

4) Battery guarantees should inspire confidence, not reduce it.
The impact of the 40% degradation warranty on buyers (vs the 30% on the Volt) isn't clear yet. More buyers may be reassured that there is a specific warranty rather than none. Many buyers will understand that warranties are design around the worst case scenario such as a heavy-footed Arizona driver who parks in direct sun. GM has a good reputation so far on plugin battery longevity.
 
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VW will do it for them

If that is their plan they need to be more vocal about it.

It has a long-established and mainstream hatchback design form.

Form isn't the point. If it were, there would be no such thing as a weirdmobile. Why didn't GM make the Bolt from their most popular car design?

That story is based on anonymous sources

I wasn't really referencing any story, just talking about attitude. Petitioning the POTUSE to be able to avoid making EVs is NOT being 'made to succeed'. Nor is hiding the COY at the back of the booth. Show some damn courage of your convictions, GM.

More buyers may be reassured that there is a specific warranty rather than none.

Name two. Even my seriously GM fanboi friend was distressed by the 40%. Is there a thread on the Bolt forum talking about how great that warranty is?

Thank you kindly.
 
Petitioning the POTUSE to be able to avoid making EVs is NOT being 'made to succeed'.
Every significant car company (except Tesla) is part of a lobbying group or coalition making the case for weakening CAFE targets today. Yes, it's short-sighted and quarterly profit aligned. They aren't petitioning to avoid making EVs since they know they will have to do this anyway due to regulations in other jurisdictions.

Nor is hiding the COY at the back of the booth. Show some damn courage of your convictions, GM.
They did not hide it. At the LA car Show (the first after the COY announcement, the Bolt EV and Volt were the two most-highlighted cars on a big rotating display with a humongous video display directly behind them dedicated to glittery imagery and text about both cars. The display dominated Chevrolet's exhibit there. The Bolt EV has also been highlighted at other recent Chevrolet car show exhibits.

Why didn't GM make the Bolt from their most popular car design?
They were balancing multiple goals. One goal was to push the car for use by Lyft, Uber, and Taxis which requires good rear seat room and easy luggage storage access. This Crossover-like form is actually an very emerging popular design trend in the car industry right now. It's also a popular form in Europe where the car is also being sold.

Even my seriously GM fanboi friend was distressed by the 40%. Is there a thread on the Bolt forum talking about how great that warranty is?
This was a story-of-the-week click bait situation. I doubt that this will be a dominant theme over the next year. People are talking about it because there isn't much else to talk about while waiting for the cars to show up at the dealers. This has been a theme for Nissan and the LEAF because of the big degradation problem they had and the impact it had on cars that only started with ~80 miles of range. GM has a good battery longevity reputation and the Bolt's starting range is 238 miles so normal range reductions over time have much less impact to usability.