Bought a LR RWD with 55k on it for 52. Shd I cancel and buy new SR+ instead ?

[hingisfan]

It's funny how many people ignored the fact that SR+ is RWD and of course, they would claim to be "fine" in winter. I have had 3 RWD cars in my garage as of 2 months ago (2 sports and 1 EV, all with xice3), none of them will be able to get me out of trouble if a snow storm hits. I even had issues just getting up a very mild ramp in a parking lot.

The discussion should be two part - RWD vs AWD and the price.

First of all, I would never spend $50k+ on a RWD daily car in Canada. It's all great until the day that you get stuck. The slip start helps, the weight of the battery pack helps, experience can also help, but physics is physics. My experience tells me that all you need is one occasion that you need that 4 wheels to put power down to get out of trouble, the extra cost would be justified. There has been way too many hairy moments with my RWD cars in winter that I don't think it's worth it if it's your daily car. Weekender or fun car is a totally different story though, apply that to your situation. Seeing that you are in Vancouver, this may also not impact you as much as us in Toronto. The other piece is also the acceleration on the AWD is noticeably quicker, the premium sound is enjoyable, the rear heated seats are nice (although upgradable).

Second part of it, with 55k is quite a lot of km for a relatively new car, I'd stay away from it regardless of warranty. It's a decent amount of savings given Tesla's resell value, but it also isn't enough for me to take on a car with this mileage when it's only a year or two old. However this is a personal preference and your experience with used cars, some people might feel comfortable with it.

For reference, I still have my RWD cars as fun cars, with a LR AWD as my daily commuter.

5th winter with my rwd model S..... With snow tires it is a beast in winter.

 

[richyrich]

5th winter with my rwd model S..... With snow tires it is a beast in winter.

Agreed. Second winter in my LR RWD Model 3, I just hit 80,000km and I live in a semi-rural area (my street is a lower priority for the city so I often have to drive out through unplowed snow in the early mornings). No traction issues with snow or ice despite some really crappy conditions.

 

[Snowie]

Your RWD must be carrying a unique physics behind it then

Again, this is not the place to discuss and I apologize for derailing it in the first place....but just for indexing, RWD is fine until it's not. That's when you wish you have FWD or AWD. Speaking from experience, and I don't wish anyone to be in that situation.

RWD in heavy snow requires a different set of skills or driver's IQ. It sounds like you guys are very experienced, but I just generally like to mention it for those that thinking RWD is every bit as good as FWD/AWD due to the internet, especially when Model 3 is made for the masses. Not everyone is as experienced or able to handle a RWD car in snow.

In another two groups where my other RWD cars belong, there are a lot of support around driving their cars in the winter. One snow storm hits, I saw at least 5 posts a day with people crashing their cars. I don't

 

[MexiCanuck]

Your RWD must be carrying a unique physics behind it then

Again, this is not the place to discuss and I apologize for derailing it in the first place....but just for indexing, RWD is fine until it's not. That's when you wish you have FWD or AWD. Speaking from experience, and I don't wish anyone to be in that situation.

RWD in heavy snow requires a different set of skills or driver's IQ. It sounds like you guys are very experienced, but I just generally like to mention it for those that thinking RWD is every bit as good as FWD/AWD due to the internet, especially when Model 3 is made for the masses. Not everyone is as experienced or able to handle a RWD car in snow.

In another two groups where my other RWD cars belong, there are a lot of support around driving their cars in the winter. One snow storm hits, I saw at least 5 posts a day with people crashing their cars. I don't

Everything is good until it’s not.

I don’t recall seeing anyone here suggesting that the TM3 is as good as FWD/AWD. (As an aside, there is no TM3 FWD, so any comparison has to be with a non-TM3 RWD and I prefer my TM3 RWD over my Prius v FWD.) I think that many, like me, consider the RWD to be good enough for the vast majority of our needs.

We remember as well that the OP is from Vancouver, so driving in the snow is likely not much of an issue. A number of my friends and relatives in Vancouver don’t even have snow tires. They figure it is cheaper and/or more convenient to just take transit or stay at home on the few days of the year when they would need snow tires.

 

[Snowie]

Everything is good until it’s not.

I don’t recall seeing anyone here suggesting that the TM3 is as good as FWD/AWD. (As an aside, there is no TM3 FWD, so any comparison has to be with a non-TM3 RWD and I prefer my TM3 RWD over my Prius v FWD.) I think that many, like me, consider the RWD to be good enough for the vast majority of our needs.

We remember as well that the OP is from Vancouver, so driving in the snow is likely not much of an issue. A number of my friends and relatives in Vancouver don’t even have snow tires. They figure it is cheaper and/or more convenient to just take transit or stay at home on the few days of the year when they would need snow tires.

Not saying TM3 has FWD, but that's usually the comparison people make regardless of cars...because people are defending "RWD" but not "RWD TM3" in general.

Vancouver doesn't really have a real Canadian winter, so the justification of having a RWD TM3 is very strong. I would have loved the $17k savings as well if we didn't have the snow

Again, don't get me wrong, RWD is fine for a lot of people, but you need to know a little bit more about what to do in certain situations if the intention is to drive in Ontario or QC winter weather!

 

[richyrich]

Again, don't get me wrong, RWD is fine for a lot of people, but you need to know a little bit more about what to do in certain situations if the intention is to drive in Ontario or QC winter weather!

I'm in Ottawa and we get some pretty serious weather, it's not BC; I live semi-rural and I've driven the RWD M3 over two whole winters including many road trips to Toronto and Montreal. I wouldn't call myself an expert driver by any means so it's not like I'm doing anything special and I'm telling you the RWD car does well.

Let's keep it to real-world experiences with the car vs guesswork from someone who doesn't own one - a lot more valuable for the forum.

Now, back to the point of the thread?

 

[hingisfan]

Your RWD must be carrying a unique physics behind it then

Again, this is not the place to discuss and I apologize for derailing it in the first place....but just for indexing, RWD is fine until it's not. That's when you wish you have FWD or AWD. Speaking from experience, and I don't wish anyone to be in that situation.

RWD in heavy snow requires a different set of skills or driver's IQ. It sounds like you guys are very experienced, but I just generally like to mention it for those that thinking RWD is every bit as good as FWD/AWD due to the internet, especially when Model 3 is made for the masses. Not everyone is as experienced or able to handle a RWD car in snow.

In another two groups where my other RWD cars belong, there are a lot of support around driving their cars in the winter. One snow storm hits, I saw at least 5 posts a day with people crashing their cars. I don't

You obviously haven't driven a rwd Tesla.... The traction control is FAR superior to anything ICE. When only the rwd S was available, ppl in Norway preferred it to their awd Subarus.

 

[Mitch105]

You obviously haven't driven a rwd Tesla.... The traction control is FAR superior to anything ICE. When only the rwd S was available, ppl in Norway preferred it to their awd Subarus.

You obviously haven't driven a rwd Tesla.... The traction control is FAR superior to anything ICE. When only the rwd S was available, ppl in Norway preferred it to their awd Subarus.

it’s a great point. I have always preferred rear drive where the steering is not polluted by the affects of drive force on the front wheels. It’s as driving was meant to be. But hey, I get it. AWD gives better confidence and in deep snow you need it. I will forever prefer rear drive cars. My sr+ is awesome!

 

[Snowie]

You obviously haven't driven a rwd Tesla.... The traction control is FAR superior to anything ICE. When only the rwd S was available, ppl in Norway preferred it to their awd Subarus.

I'm in Ottawa and we get some pretty serious weather, it's not BC; I live semi-rural and I've driven the RWD M3 over two whole winters including many road trips to Toronto and Montreal. I wouldn't call myself an expert driver by any means so it's not like I'm doing anything special and I'm telling you the RWD car does well.

Let's keep it to real-world experiences with the car vs guesswork from someone who doesn't own one - a lot more valuable for the forum.

Now, back to the point of the thread?

Yes, I have driven a RWD 3, sorry - under heavy snow, it does not perform better than AWD. It's pure physics, not sure what's there to argue about. One way that I can prove you wrong is to test both car under the same bad road condition, which is hardly possible. Another way that is from experience of owning various cars and systems for extensive period of time to be able to experience different situations. Once again - I would NOT depend on any of my RWD cars (model 3 or not) in heavy snow, period. Multiple times almost end up in the ditch and almost sliding into 18 wheelers, no thanks. You need that two front wheels in bad situations.

To provide more context, other than the LR AWD Model 3 and a RWD model 3 that I have driven, I also have a BMW M2 (RWD), Miata RF (RWD), Smart EV (RWD) and Audi S4 (AWD) all on snow tires. The two cars prior are Golf R and STI. I have exposure to good amount of other RWD and AWD systems, one thing I would agree is - not all are made equal. Golf R's Haldex system is terrible, but the Quattro from audi and STI's with a center diff are absolutely amazing. The model 3's dual motor system is great, but not as good as other systems available out there. I also agree that the RWD EVs are definitely more stable relative to ICE RWD, but to say that it's better or as good as AWD? It's almost saying "I feel warmer by wearing just gloves in winter rather than gloves and hat together." . I love my Model 3, it's the best commuter's car. However you guys really need to be less bias towards it to the point.

Again, not to say RWD 3 can't be good if driven proper, but there are many accidents due to people blindly read something online and try it. All i wanted to say is, for anyone that's seriously thinking about having a RWD car as their only winter car, better to try it themselves (in the snow) instead of taking someone's word for it. Everyone's experience and expectations are different.

 

[CdnElec]

Yes, I have driven a RWD 3, sorry - under heavy snow, it does not perform better than AWD. It's pure physics, not sure what's there to argue about. One way that I can prove you wrong is to test both car under the same bad road condition, which is hardly possible. Another way that is from experience of owning various cars and systems for extensive period of time to be able to experience different situations. Once again - I would NOT depend on any of my RWD cars (model 3 or not) in heavy snow, period. Multiple times almost end up in the ditch and almost sliding into 18 wheelers, no thanks. You need that two front wheels in bad situations.

To provide more context, other than the LR AWD Model 3 and a RWD model 3 that I have driven, I also have a BMW M2 (RWD), Miata RF (RWD), Smart EV (RWD) and Audi S4 (AWD) all on snow tires. The two cars prior are Golf R and STI. I have exposure to good amount of other RWD and AWD systems, one thing I would agree is - not all are made equal. Golf R's Haldex system is terrible, but the Quattro from audi and STI's with a center diff are absolutely amazing. The model 3's dual motor system is great, but not as good as other systems available out there. I also agree that the RWD EVs are definitely more stable relative to ICE RWD, but to say that it's better or as good as AWD? It's almost saying "I feel warmer by wearing just gloves in winter rather than gloves and hat together." . I love my Model 3, it's the best commuter's car. However you guys really need to be less bias towards it to the point.

Again, not to say RWD 3 can't be good if driven proper, but there are many accidents due to people blindly read something online and try it. All i wanted to say is, for anyone that's seriously thinking about having a RWD car as their only winter car, better to try it themselves (in the snow) instead of taking someone's word for it. Everyone's experience and expectations are different.

I am another Sr plus owner in the GTA. No one is arguing rwd model 3 is better than the awd model 3 in the snow. Better than some ICE AWD, perhaps. in my car I have had absolutely no problems having rwd in the winter. I have even tried flooring it to see if I could get the back end to slide out but it's just not possible unless slip start is engaged.

You mention sliding out as a problem in rwd. With traction control, this does not happen in Sr plus. And unless you are accelerating through a turn, the tires on a car are the most important factor because the drive train would not even be engaged.

I came from an Audi A4 quattro and while I wouldn't argue this car has better traction in snow, I would certainly say it is not a hindrance at all.

 

[hingisfan]

Yep.... Completely impossible to do a donut unless you take off traction control.

 

[Vawlkus]

Yes, I have driven a RWD 3, sorry - under heavy snow, it does not perform better than AWD. It's pure physics, not sure what's there to argue about. One way that I can prove you wrong is to test both car under the same bad road condition, which is hardly possible. Another way that is from experience of owning various cars and systems for extensive period of time to be able to experience different situations. Once again - I would NOT depend on any of my RWD cars (model 3 or not) in heavy snow, period. Multiple times almost end up in the ditch and almost sliding into 18 wheelers, no thanks. You need that two front wheels in bad situations.

To provide more context, other than the LR AWD Model 3 and a RWD model 3 that I have driven, I also have a BMW M2 (RWD), Miata RF (RWD), Smart EV (RWD) and Audi S4 (AWD) all on snow tires. The two cars prior are Golf R and STI. I have exposure to good amount of other RWD and AWD systems, one thing I would agree is - not all are made equal. Golf R's Haldex system is terrible, but the Quattro from audi and STI's with a center diff are absolutely amazing. The model 3's dual motor system is great, but not as good as other systems available out there. I also agree that the RWD EVs are definitely more stable relative to ICE RWD, but to say that it's better or as good as AWD? It's almost saying "I feel warmer by wearing just gloves in winter rather than gloves and hat together." . I love my Model 3, it's the best commuter's car. However you guys really need to be less bias towards it to the point.

Again, not to say RWD 3 can't be good if driven proper, but there are many accidents due to people blindly read something online and try it. All i wanted to say is, for anyone that's seriously thinking about having a RWD car as their only winter car, better to try it themselves (in the snow) instead of taking someone's word for it. Everyone's experience and expectations are different.

You're in the minority then. EVERYONE I know that's tried a RWD Tesla in snow agrees they're better than any AWD car they've driven.
I know a couple here in NS that will pick their RWD Model 3 over their AWD Tuscan in ANY driving conditions.

 

[McFlurri]

My LR RWD is amazing in the snow (with winter tires)

To the OP,

I would get the LR if you didn't recieve the government rebates.

But keep in mind the LR does have more range buffer for the winter range loss (up to 40% in some situations), lifetime premium connectivity, better sound system, longer battery warranty, homelink, floor mats and grocery bag hook in the frunk (if that matters to you), and a faster charger. Also quicker 0-100km times.

 

[Muskol]

My LR RWD is amazing in the snow (with winter tires)

To the OP,

I would get the LR if you didn't recieve the government rebates.

But keep in mind the LR does have more range buffer for the winter range loss (up to 40% in some situations), lifetime premium connectivity, better sound system, longer battery warranty, homelink, floor mats and grocery bag hook in the frunk (if that matters to you), and a faster charger. Also quicker 0-100km times.

To add, EAP vs basic AP are features to consider, if the OPs LR RWD was configured with EAP. Didn’t see it mentioned.