MasterC17
Active Member
I understand where you are coming from, but long-term it's going to be more expensive to eat up stock/sport brake pads than it would be to buy a set of track pads that will hold up to the abuse.
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Brake Pads/Fluid for Track : How far to go?
- Thread starter Lunares
- Start date
I understand where you are coming from, but long-term it's going to be more expensive to eat up stock/sport brake pads than it would be to buy a set of track pads that will hold up to the abuse.
Zcd1
Active Member
It’s not just the cost of the pads, it’s the cost and inconvenience of swapping them. BTDT, many times, and I’ve also done my own swapping but don’t have time at this point.
MasterC17
Active Member
You are totally correct on all points of course! As we don't have any 3s here yet I'm still getting to grips with the spec and availability of the various models. At least that's the excuse I'm going to use...
It's possible some drivers are over using their brakes as they get used to a track they haven't been to before. Maybe different levels of regen being chosen as well?
beastmode13
Member
There is no such thing as overboard. When you swap brake lines to SS lines, you should do it while upgrading the brake fluid.
The other thing about new cars and I suspect EVs will suffer from this much worse, is the bedding in of the pads. If the brakes are little used they probably aren't bedded in enough for track use.
Track mode locks you in at 0.3g of regen, so it should be the same for all P cars. But yes, how you drive is huge! That said, upgraded pads and fluid should let you pretty much do an entire session at Buttonwillow without problems. Maybe after 4-5 hard laps you see some fade, but at that point you are losing top speed from motor heat anyway.
Well then you should bed them in before hitting the track! I have a special street specifically for this purpose
Well then you should bed them in before hitting the track! I have a special street specifically for this purpose
Indeed, but I find the importance of this and the correct way of doing it are not always understood, which is why I'm mentioning it.
beastmode13
Member
True.
It is also driver/owner's responsibility to prep their car for the track. Bedding is a simple process and needs to be done on ICE or EV, not just for track, but most importantly for the emergency situation on the street. Hawk Performance Premium Brake Pads, Rotors, & Kits | Hawk Performance
MasterC17
Active Member
I'm basing this off of personal experience and data.
The MOT of a Hawk HPS is 750f. The Hawk HP+ is 800f.
I ran Carbotech XP10's on a 2015 BMW M3 at Watkins Glen (similar HP, 500lbs lighter) and was not at all confident entering turn 1 with an extremely squishy brake pedal. The MOT of those pads was 1,650f. I was running Castrol SRF and Stainless lines as well. They lasted two days before being completely worn out. The M3 also has significantly larger rotors. I upgraded to XP12's and my problems were solved (MOT for those is "2000f+").
Therefore, I cannot personally imagine putting a set of Hawk HPS/HP+ equivalent pads on a heavier car with no brake cooling ducts and expecting them to perform optimally and within a comfortable safety range.
To each their own, but I am not going to enter a corner expecting a pedal to be there only to find out it isn't. Not worth my safety or potential damage to the car. Additionally, proper track pads will last much longer, so the total cost investment is less.
In conclusion, the brake pad you run is most directly related to your own personal driving style. Therefore, for some people I suspect the pad offerings from MPP and UP will be acceptable. However, if you are out there looking to run the fastest lap times I don't understand why you wouldn't want to invest in something as critical as the brake pads.
That's literally one of the highest MOT pads you can get, so if you are still having problems its probably not just the pad and is more about other hardware (rotors) and/or your use case. I really dont think anyone is going to have that problem with a Model 3 since you run into motor heat issues which slow you down. No one is doing 24 hour endurance racing, for instance.
Randy Pobst had no issues with even the stock pads when doing hot laps on Sunday, but i do agree that its good to upgrade for safety and peace of mind. That said, even fluid and basic pads alone will be enough for 90% of people that track their Model 3's.
MasterC17
Active Member
Hopefully Tesla gets the motor heat sorted out. What ambient temps are you running into at the Corsa events?
I foresee P3D's being using quite a bit in Time Attack/Time Trial events
I think Track Mode is about as good as they're going to get for a little while, without Track Mode you'd get power limiting on like the 2nd lap and it would be about 30-40% power loss after 2 laps (in a dual motor car, RWD heats up slower). Now with Track Mode, you can do ~3-4 fast laps before power loss and then its only about 10-20% of a loss.
Ambient temps this weekend were in the 70s, not too bad.
MasterC17
Active Member
I wouldn't be so sure; based on the behavior I experienced I think they can dial in Track Mode a good bit more to help with the heat issue. We shall see!
The cooling idea made me start thinking something crazy, like this one:
Brabham BT46 - Wikipedia
We can make a huge amount of downforce for the sake of motor/battery cooling. And this time there is no regulations banning it.
Zcd1
Active Member
I had a small fire in my braking system after a fast session the one time I ran XP-10s (!!!!)...so I won't run those again.
The events I do are HPDEs, not timed, so I don't need anything that serious...
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