Morristhecat
Member
Thanks for the update pilotSteve. I haven't heard anything from my local SC since he told me engineering was looking into it and he would let me know when he hears something. Glad to see some movemet.
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Braking in rain
- Thread starter Ven Rala
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
agw
Member
No news from my service center yet but I'll stop by to have them confirm I do not have the shields
mknox
Well-Known Member
Thanks @pilotSteve. I think I'll mention this when mine goes in for it's shield tomorrow. I did have it looked at during the last service visit, but I'm not sure anything was done other than a "cleaning and adjustment".
agw
Member
Just got an email from my service center that a service bulletin is out and it involves the possibility of installing "Dust shields". I think all of you that have reported the issue will eventually be contacted to see if this TSB applies to your car.
youlikeadajuice
P 9130
Are the brake shields visible through the wheel? Just curious what the aesthetics are...if anyone's got pictures, that would be great!
Vin 10627; if this is the case then the shield is solving something else. I had exactly the same issue the OP had.
youlikeadajuice
P 9130
That's weird, I'm 1000 below you and I have an appointment to get them installed May 10. I was just in for service yesterday and they didn't say anything about me not needing them. They would have done it yesterday, but didn't have the parts.
youlikeadajuice
P 9130
Well that may answer it. Maybe I too have the shields already, and they only will be swapping my pads and rotors. That's a more specific answer than I got.
Well, somehow I had not seen the thread when I started a new one... .but my experience is identical. I'm cutting and pasting my other post here, and I'll ask the mods to close the other:
OK, so I'm resurrecting this from earlier in the month.
I got the weird brake feeling again a few times with the heavy rains the last couple of days. When I initially hit the brakes for the first couple of seconds it feels very much like either air in the lines, or "brake fade" if you've ever had it: the calipers just don't seem to be grabbing. After a few moments it will then start to grab and slow me down.
I did some testing, and here are my observations:
- It appears to happen when the car is first driven after sitting in wet conditions for a bit (a couple of hours).
- After the first instance or two in a driving session it stops being as prevalent (but can still happen to some extent)
- It does not appear to be tires losing traction/hydroplaning: I had a section of parking lot where I could test and under identical conditions it would happen the first time, but not subsequent times
- It is not the ABS system. I can feel that kick in, and deliberately engaged it during testing to compare... this is different.
- I've not had it happen in dry conditions
I've never had a disc brake car act like this when in good order. It's very disconcerting in that it it can easily double stopping distance when it happens if in mid-speed traffic.
I'm wondering if the same rust/scale build-up that we notice on the rotors, and that may cause them to stick when parked over night, might be reacting with the moisture and preventing good brake-bad friction until it's been "scuffed off" after the first few braking applications in a given session?
So obviously several of the questions I had asked. and conclusions I had drawn, have already been covered here. I'm oging to ping the folks at the local service center and see about the TSB addressing this.
I'll also add that they proactively called me to take a look at this issue a month ago, and had flushed the brake system at the time, so they've been very proactive in trying to address it.
I'll check back in with my results...
Originally Posted by scaesare
Just got a call back from service center. They were able to detect some brake feel issues in a test drive, and did a fluid flush/change. Although that service is not specified until two years, I have ~22K miles on mine, and they said they've seen a few times cars with higher mileage for their age with similar issues...
Again great service from the folks in Rockville.
OK, so I'm resurrecting this from earlier in the month.
I got the weird brake feeling again a few times with the heavy rains the last couple of days. When I initially hit the brakes for the first couple of seconds it feels very much like either air in the lines, or "brake fade" if you've ever had it: the calipers just don't seem to be grabbing. After a few moments it will then start to grab and slow me down.
I did some testing, and here are my observations:
- It appears to happen when the car is first driven after sitting in wet conditions for a bit (a couple of hours).
- After the first instance or two in a driving session it stops being as prevalent (but can still happen to some extent)
- It does not appear to be tires losing traction/hydroplaning: I had a section of parking lot where I could test and under identical conditions it would happen the first time, but not subsequent times
- It is not the ABS system. I can feel that kick in, and deliberately engaged it during testing to compare... this is different.
- I've not had it happen in dry conditions
I've never had a disc brake car act like this when in good order. It's very disconcerting in that it it can easily double stopping distance when it happens if in mid-speed traffic.
I'm wondering if the same rust/scale build-up that we notice on the rotors, and that may cause them to stick when parked over night, might be reacting with the moisture and preventing good brake-bad friction until it's been "scuffed off" after the first few braking applications in a given session?
So obviously several of the questions I had asked. and conclusions I had drawn, have already been covered here. I'm oging to ping the folks at the local service center and see about the TSB addressing this.
I'll also add that they proactively called me to take a look at this issue a month ago, and had flushed the brake system at the time, so they've been very proactive in trying to address it.
I'll check back in with my results...
agw
Member
@yobi
I have the same work scheduled for the 13th. Yesterday it was crazy, I had to stay 50 feet from the car in front and still this morning the brakes had hardly any stopping power until they fully dried out. Now I get that the pads may be too absorbent and why Tesla will replace the pads (I guess why some having a different composition) and install the backing plates. I don't understand the rotors though...
I have the same work scheduled for the 13th. Yesterday it was crazy, I had to stay 50 feet from the car in front and still this morning the brakes had hardly any stopping power until they fully dried out. Now I get that the pads may be too absorbent and why Tesla will replace the pads (I guess why some having a different composition) and install the backing plates. I don't understand the rotors though...
Got call from the folks at the Rockville Svc Center last night...
The TSB that specifies additional shielding and brake pads (without a NVH damper) primarily applies to earlier cars, and they suspect mine already has them. They offered to verify, or instructed me how I could quickly check without having to drop the car off. I'll do that this weekend.
Other than that, I'm told engineering is working with Brembo to develop different pads. The current ones are highly metallic (as is often the case for high-performance brakes), and the feeling is that they contribute to the rotors quickly getting a coating of oxidization on them. As we regen alot, it doesn't get scrubbed off as often. The result being that the surface is able to hold a layer of water moreso than a typical disc brake might on an ICE vehicle.
The good news is that they (both the Service Centers and Tesla) know the issue is real...they told me they've experienced it first hand, and they are proactively working on it...
In the mean time, be careful in wet conditions... occasional brake application instead of regen might be advised... especially after sitting a while...
The TSB that specifies additional shielding and brake pads (without a NVH damper) primarily applies to earlier cars, and they suspect mine already has them. They offered to verify, or instructed me how I could quickly check without having to drop the car off. I'll do that this weekend.
Other than that, I'm told engineering is working with Brembo to develop different pads. The current ones are highly metallic (as is often the case for high-performance brakes), and the feeling is that they contribute to the rotors quickly getting a coating of oxidization on them. As we regen alot, it doesn't get scrubbed off as often. The result being that the surface is able to hold a layer of water moreso than a typical disc brake might on an ICE vehicle.
The good news is that they (both the Service Centers and Tesla) know the issue is real...they told me they've experienced it first hand, and they are proactively working on it...
In the mean time, be careful in wet conditions... occasional brake application instead of regen might be advised... especially after sitting a while...
mknox
Well-Known Member
Nice. Can you post the instructions and/or photos when you do?
My SC staff said they didn't think they'd seen a Canadian car without the shielding, but were going to check mine when I had it in a couple of weeks ago. I forgot to ask them when I picked the car up. Mine is an earlier Canadian Production model that I got not long after the Sigs were delivered.
I'll check back in with any tips, although given the low ground clearance I'm not sure how successful I'l lbe getting any pics.
Basically he told me to look for:
- Semi-circular sheetmetal shielding on the inside of the discs. If you've ever worked on disc brakes it's like these:
- Brake Pads without a small NVH damper weight on the top edge of the metal backing (visible in the cutout in the center of the caliper where the pads drop in)
I do wonder how things would be affected with a set of slotted or cross-drilled discs...
What service bulletin? Have a link? I've searched for a service bulletin on this issue and can't find one. I thought service bulletins of this nature had to be listed with NHTSA.
Does Tesla keep some of the service bulletins silent/secret? I thought service bulletin disclosure was required.
I noticed the braking problem again with recent heavy rains in the DC area. I am taking it in for my annual service soon, so hopefully they can change my pads and put in the shielding. I just hope that fixes it.
digitaltim
Sig737 VIN628
Thanks for all the triage efforts on this issue...I have definitely experienced it. I notice it most when I first leave a touchless car wash versus normal driving in wet/rainy conditions.
It is now on my list for my 50k checkup at the end of the month.
It is now on my list for my 50k checkup at the end of the month.
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