Definitely Gen 3, it has in built DC fault current detection so you don't need an external Type B RCD, which for three phase are several hundred dollars alone.
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Building a new house, being prepared
- Thread starter suku18
- Start date
Yes circuits go back to the board. So if circuits 1 & 2 are on Phase A, and 3 & 4 on Phase B, then it is simple to, say, swap circuits 2 and 3 at the board so that circuit 3 is now on Phase A and circuit 2 is on Phase B.
But everything on circuit 2 is now on Phase B and is no longer backed up.
If you wanted to keep half of the GPOs on circuit 2 so that they remained backed up, that requires connecting those GPOs to either circuit 1 or circuit 3 so that they stay on Phase A.
That would require running a new electrical cable from the board to the first of those GPOs and terminating or splitting the old circuit at that point. That would require ripping extensive amounts of plasterboard off the wall in a timber/brick veneer house, or might be essentially impossible in a brick slab house.
Agree worth it on Gen 3.
But believe that the call on Gen 2 was Type B in Australia was a "should" requirement not a "shall" one, so highly recommended, but not required.
Zoltrix77
Member
Just to add to this post for anyone else, if you are building a new home, or upgrading the electrical system to an existing home. Not only is 3ph a great idea for EV's its basically a no brainer if you are going to be adding refreigerated reverse cycle AC of the ducted variety, which realistically, is the only heating (and cooling) I would consider nowadays, gas is dead.
Please explain? Air conditioners use gas as the refrigerant… it goes through a phase change of liquid to gas to remove heat from air inside and expel it outside. And the reverse of that process to do the opposite.
Comparison of various refrigerants (R-410A, R-22, R-290, R-134A) used for Air Conditioners and Refrigerators
Comparison of various type of old and modern refrigerants that are used in ACs and Refrigerators in India on global warming potential and energy efficiency.
www.bijlibachao.com
Maximillan
Member
My guess is that what he's alluding to is that you have more options when it comes to the larger units if you have 3 phase. Last year I did a bit of work on my place which has 2 phase, and had no problems with getting the right size A/C but it was touch and go with the pool heat pump due to the size of the pool, and I had to settle for the largest single phase unit.Please explain? Air conditioners use gas as the refrigerant… it goes through a phase change of liquid to gas to remove heat from air inside and expel it outside. And the reverse of that process to do the opposite.
Comparison of various refrigerants (R-410A, R-22, R-290, R-134A) used for Air Conditioners and Refrigerators
Comparison of various type of old and modern refrigerants that are used in ACs and Refrigerators in India on global warming potential and energy efficiency.www.bijlibachao.com
For me not having 3 phase was a limitation when it came to solar as I was restricted to only 9.9Kw of panels due to Ausgrid's single phase limit.
Zoltrix77
Member
Please explain? Air conditioners use gas as the refrigerant… it goes through a phase change of liquid to gas to remove heat from air inside and expel it outside. And the reverse of that process to do the opposite.
Comparison of various refrigerants (R-410A, R-22, R-290, R-134A) used for Air Conditioners and Refrigerators
Comparison of various type of old and modern refrigerants that are used in ACs and Refrigerators in India on global warming potential and energy efficiency.www.bijlibachao.com
Sorry, perhaps I have been light on details. 3ph Air-Conditioners are generally more efficient than their single phase counterparts. When I said gas is dead, I was refering to the natural gas connections to homes. Eg, why burn a fossil fuel for heating when you can have efficient electric heating that is as clean as whatever is generating the elctricity.
Obviously there are industrial processes that require gas at the moment, but I see no real need in a domestic setting going forward. Sure some people like to cook with gas, but that uses next to nothing, could easily be replaced by small gas bottles.
Eg, Victoria as spent a fortune expending the gas network when they could have spent that money subsidising the replacement of electric resistance heaters with reverse cycle air conditioners. Gas isn't even cheap anymore.
Maximillan
Member
I'm curious as to what the most efficient options are for hot water is? My instantaneous gas hot water is hard to beat, but I could be wrong.
Fairly sure its either that or a heat pump. Depends on plenty of factors though. I’ve got instantaneous gas hot water as well. Nice and hot and plenty of it.
Even is SA which is the 2nd highest renewable state we cannot make enough power at night to avoid using our gas generators. So whatever happens my bbq is going to be cooking with gas. Converting it to electricity first is not as efficient.
As for house heating and cooling, optimum solution is hydronic floor heating/cooling with very good insulation and shaded windows. Most of Australia gets very hot or cold so some good aircon is essential for days when the hydronics cannot cope. Most people undersize their aircon so it runs flat out all the time. An oversized aircon can be more efficient if optimised correctly, but costs more. VRV is incredibly good but its more commercial sized so costs a bit but extremely efficient
Well, YMMV, but I ran the numbers (exactly) in my spreadsheet based on my 5-minute usage pattern. The payback perod for 1 battery is not good in my instance, and it is likely that a second battery would not pay itself back in my lifetime, let alone a third.
In my case for the most recent 12 months of usage based on my current tariffs:
- Peak discharge 527 kWh = $236 saved
- Shoulder discharge 1397 kWh = $290 saved
- Offpeak discharge 859 kWh = $105 saved
- Foregone FIT 3007 kWh = $150 foregone
- Net value of battery = $481 p.a.
- Payback time based on $12.5k installed cost = 26 years
There’s a couple of things that contribute to this. My battery is cycled an average of 0.62 times per day. If it got higher cycling then the payback time would be shorter. That would require a larger solar array (not possible on my roof) and a higher household energy consumption (which runs counter to being more energy efficient). In my case, a second battery would be cycled way less than the first, so the payback time would really blow out.
The fact that a battery results in forgone FIT also hurts. If FIT was zero, payback time improves to 19.8 years. A higher FIT makes the payback time worse as you forego more revenue. If utilities start charging for export, then that would help battery economics. An export penalty of $0.21/kWh would reduce payback time of the battery to 10 years but increase the payback time of the solar array.
And somewhat perversely, getting a good low-cost ToU tariff also hurts. Battery payback time is reduced if you get yourself on a really expensive energy plan. One of the most expensive plans I found was from EnergyAustralia, and it increased my previous 12 months grid bill from $880 to $1098, reducing the payback time of the battery to 22.5 years. But of course adding $218 to your annual bill to increase the value of energy saved by the battery to $74 p.a. is dumb.
I have no regrets getting the battery - my decision was not based on economics.
Not really perverse: a battery is cheaper than expensive electricity, but not cheaper than cheap electricity.
So had the meeting with the electrician yesterday, but ended up getting more confused than before.
I guess he didnt get when I asked him for 32A 3-phase circuit terminated in either a socket or just a junction box at the garage as suggested by Cafz.
He kept on saying he can do it but how will you charge when you go out or charge at other places.
He also quoted an excess of around a $1000 for the wiring and fixing this 32A circuit switch.Is this justifiable?
And yes I confirmed we do have a 3 Phase connection to our home.
I was thinking to keep things simplified , should I just ask for a 15A socket to be installed at the Garage and charge using the 15A adaptor that would be provided with the car?
Or if I call the Tesla approved electricians and ask them how much they would quote?
I am totally confused at this time, as this is French to me
Thanks
I guess he didnt get when I asked him for 32A 3-phase circuit terminated in either a socket or just a junction box at the garage as suggested by Cafz.
He kept on saying he can do it but how will you charge when you go out or charge at other places.
He also quoted an excess of around a $1000 for the wiring and fixing this 32A circuit switch.Is this justifiable?
And yes I confirmed we do have a 3 Phase connection to our home.
I was thinking to keep things simplified , should I just ask for a 15A socket to be installed at the Garage and charge using the 15A adaptor that would be provided with the car?
Or if I call the Tesla approved electricians and ask them how much they would quote?
I am totally confused at this time, as this is French to me
Thanks
I have three batteries. I didn't buy any of them to save money but because it is the right thing to do for the environment. Same reason I bought my Model 3, not to save money but it is the right thing for the environment.
It would have been better if we had decent state and federal governments that actually cared about combatting climate change but we don't. Yes, NSW is slowly getting onboard but it is too little too late.
I got three because that's what I could afford at the time and it turns out it's about the right size for my house. Now that I have them I'm saving money, quite a lot really:
Only if you looking at ROI, which I'm not. With all the wet/cloudy weather we've had recently, I'm not getting as much solar generation, but the days have been quite hot so the AC has been kicking in. With a really low ToU tariff at night, I can charge up the batteries at just over 10c/kWh and that will last the house the whole day. Compared to the 22c/kWh I was paying before, I can make significant savings on a daily basis.
Same, as above.
That depends on how fast you want to be able to charge the car. At 15A you will add around 21km per hour to a Model 3. If that is sufficient, then go for it. At 32A you add around 45km per hour.
Depends how long and or difficult the cable run is? Is it a harder job if you do it later, giving you time to work out if you need it and putting it in the right place?
The beauty of being able to charge at up to 11kW if you go for a Gen 3 HPWC means you can take advantage of the low/free off peak power if you choose a plan like that now or in the future.
