Actually, if you just need a car to get you by until the Model 3, your most economical option is to buy a used econobox, 6 or 7 years old. It won't lose too much value in an additional year or two. If you just can't wait to get into a BEV, then you have fewer options.
Let's see:
2011-2012 Volt. Will serve over 50% of US commuters on pure EV power. 40mpg EPA hwy in CS. $13,000 avg in SoCal (- $450 for Southern California Edison customers).
2011-2012 Prius. 46 mpg EPA hwy. $13,000 avg in SoCal.
So unless you drive over 275 miles a day to work and back, the Volt is the Greener Choice. 276 miles is gives the Prius a 4 tablespoon [email protected] advantage. Well, unless you can charge at work, then it's 550 miles a day commuting to break even.
The Volt has good reliability. Probably because the generator is not used much.
So for most folk, a Volt will be nearly pure EV in operation. There are a rare few who would see an advantage by opting for a "6-7 year old econobox", but you'd probably slash your wrists before too long.
This has nothing to do with my post. You are arguing that the Volt is the better car. I was answering the question of someone who has decided he wants a Model 3 but needs a car in the interim, and presumably needs to keep his costs as low as possible.
And why would anyone "slash their wrists" from owning an econobox? I drove a 1989 Honda Civic for 15 years. If I didn't have a car, and needed something to tide me over until I could get a Tesla Model 3, and money was a problem, I'd happily drive that Civic for another year. (I traded up because I could afford a better car. And when an EV became available I got that. But there was nothing wrong with the Civic if I'd been unable to afford a better car.)
I presume we're talking about someone who needs cheap transportation until he can get his dream car: the Tesla Model 3.
How much depreciation do you think a $13k Volt is going to see? And it's a good entry point into EV technology.
>275 miles a day commuting means you will have no life but work and driving. Hence suicidal thoughts.
It's really depends on whether you are into EVs for the Green Factor, or the performance aspects.
A 2011 Volt handles a lot better, is quicker, more fun, and it's green.
It's nothing like an Econobox in the way it drives. You would drive it until your Model 3 arrives, then already be used to electric cars, have your 14-50 outlet in place, then sell the Volt for very close to what you paid for it. The used prices actually went up a bit when California stopped their EV rebate.
If you want to become an EV enthusiast, why not wet your whistle with a car that drives just like a BEV all the time? Even when the generator is running, due to buffering, it runs like it's pure EV.
But if you want the Model 3 just for looks, and don't really worry about environmental issues, then sure, just drive your old ICE until the wheels fall off then buy a used Model 3 at a discount.
GM, who makes the car, calls a Hybrid not and EV. Because it is a hybrid which is completely and clearly different than an EV. Nothing to due with "purity" but rather fact and using the proper description of the vehicle.
A hybrid powertrain combines two different propulsion systems to move the vehicle, hence the term hybrid.
While the Volt can be run on just electricity, it cannot be run on just gasoline. There is no way for the car to move from a stoplight without electricity. There is no torque converter. Then you run into the problem of providing full rated 111kW (149hp) power at 0 mph. The problem is the ICE generator isn't nearly 111kW, it's only like 63kW but only at peak RPM. So when the battery is drained to zero miles, how does it turn 84 hp into 149 hp? CARB and the EPA banned nitrous oxide for emissions reasons on production cars. The beautiful legacy and downfall of Saleen
There is not a massive flywheel or compressed air tank. Nor does it need it. All 149HP at 0 mph is electric motor. Even with the traction battery reading empty. Well, duh, the gas engine can't move the car at 0 mph.
It's magic. There are elves with enormous amounts of flatulence hidden under the bumper that provide jet propulsion.
I got tired of waiting for the delays and was thinking of just going for the S but was not wowed at the test drive. The 249 mile range and the slightly dated interior and slightly slow touchscreen performance left me underwhelmed when the 3 had addressed most of those issues. I ended up getting a pretty insane deal on a $49k MSRP BMW i3 - $0 out of pocket and $260 a month CA taxes included. I will still get the $2500 CA rebate and $450 PG&E rebate. I mainly needed HOV access for my wife and now we don't have to worry about when the 3 will come. The i3 may end up being a money maker for us if we keep it for less then 12 months and swap the lease to someone else after we get our Tesla. You may consider leasing a Bolt or i3 if it fits with your lifestyle as they are giving out great deals.
Argh, all you lucky CARB state people. I'm in Atlanta. So I can't get those crazy leases. That's why I'm looking at buying a Volt to hold me over. It's either a used Volt or a new Volt with the hopes that the $7,500 rebate will knock off the 1st year depreciation. The high inventory will allow better negotiation. And plus, there's a $700 Costco rebate now for GM vehicles.
But we did have our day a few years ago when the $5,000 state rebate was effective.
But we did have our day a few years ago when the $5,000 state rebate was effective.
>275 miles a day commuting means you will have no life but work and driving. Hence suicidal thoughts.
Who commutes 275 miles a day, and what does that have to do with the OP? If you do drive 275 miles a day you don't want a Volt. You want a Lincoln Town Car! Whether electric or gas, 275 miles would drive (pun intended) anyone nuts.
No, it depends on whether you are buying a car to keep, or you need transportation and can't afford to spend money on it until the Model 3 becomes available. If money is no object, buy a Model S, or better yet, a used Roadster, and then buy the Model 3 when it comes out if it suits you better.
copyhacker
Member
Edward Reading
Member
Wow, where did you get that lease? I might be interested in that to tide me over.
You can call it a pizza oven if it blows wind up your skirt. Chevy calls 'em EREVs. There is no other powertrain similar to it for sale.
Instead of Pizza Oven. We call #3 "Christine" - We had 4 adults in the car (yeah, I know, impossible, so what) and went up to Solvang. Had Adaptive set to 75 mph for the 101. Then we got off the Solvang exit, and were promptly stuck behind a car going 25 mph in a 45? zone. As we approached the town, which was crowded with pedestrians, the lead car made a quick right into a parking lot.
ZOOM!! The freakin' car floored it. I had forgotten to turn the ACC down from 75mph and had the distance set at 1.5s, but was still going only 25mph. ICE cars and hybrids can't apply full power quickly at low speeds due to their transmissions being in a higher gear in the wrong part of the powerband, but Volts aren't that way. My passengers thought I went nuts, but I quickly brought it under control. They accused me of trying to scare them, but I did learn something.
BTW - there was no risk of hitting somebody. It has radar, camera, and ultrasonic for collision avoidance, both objects and pedestrians. "Sparky" is #1, "BluMe" is #2, "Christine" is #3, and "Beast" is #4.
It is an EV. An Extended Range Electric Vehicle. That can almost travel as many EV miles in a year as a Leaf. An HEV is a plain gas Prius.
I guess you think an i3 REX is also "just a hybrid"?
Chevy Volt Drivers Average Nearly As Many Electric Miles As Nissan LEAF Drivers
This post is informational for other folk who want more information about Volts.
Pragmatically, a Volt is both an EV and a Hybrid. It can be operated either way. It defaults to an EV, but can be switched to hybrid if you desire. It will switch to the unique hybrid design automatically if the traction battery is empty, or when commanded. If you floor it in EV mode, the gas engine does not turn on. It will go 101 mph in either EV mode or hybrid mode, and takes 7.x seconds to reach 60 mph in either mode.
A common question when I give folk test drives in our Volts is: "How long does it take to charge it?"
The answer is not simple except to Volt drivers. First, it can charge at either 120v standard wall outlet power, or at 240v with a L2 charger (not included). Most owners charge at 120v using the factory cable.
1) You don't have to charge it. Unless you want. The performance is not affected. It is always ready to drive.
2) Charging time depends on charging method and how far you need to go. Best I can tell is that can take up to 16 hours in certain situations (low setting on 120v), but you don't have to wait for it to completely charge unless you want.
3) It will take just under 4.5h for a max charge from empty with 240v EV charging equipment.
4) It usually takes less than 1 minute a day. You arrive home, and plug it in. When you leave, you unplug it. If you forget to plug it in, it is not a problem. If there is a blackout, tripped breaker, or failure of the EVSE, no problem.
The second most common question is just as hard: "How many MPG does it get?"
1) It depends on what you are doing. 25 mpg to >1000 mpg. Our 3 Volts have a fleet average of over 380 miles per gallon.
2) Freeway travel in hybrid mode at 70 mph gets 40 mpg in normal conditions (G2).
3) Out of 9,349 owners of 2011-2018 cars, currently it's 112.84 mpg, or about 1000 miles between refills. This is based on pure telemetry, not user input (voltstats.net). Most of the data pool is the early version which has 35 miles of EV range and less mpg in hybrid model. So the number goes up over time.
It is the worry-free EV that requires no remote infrastructure.
Pragmatically, a Volt is both an EV and a Hybrid. It can be operated either way. It defaults to an EV, but can be switched to hybrid if you desire. It will switch to the unique hybrid design automatically if the traction battery is empty, or when commanded. If you floor it in EV mode, the gas engine does not turn on. It will go 101 mph in either EV mode or hybrid mode, and takes 7.x seconds to reach 60 mph in either mode.
A common question when I give folk test drives in our Volts is: "How long does it take to charge it?"
The answer is not simple except to Volt drivers. First, it can charge at either 120v standard wall outlet power, or at 240v with a L2 charger (not included). Most owners charge at 120v using the factory cable.
1) You don't have to charge it. Unless you want. The performance is not affected. It is always ready to drive.
2) Charging time depends on charging method and how far you need to go. Best I can tell is that can take up to 16 hours in certain situations (low setting on 120v), but you don't have to wait for it to completely charge unless you want.
3) It will take just under 4.5h for a max charge from empty with 240v EV charging equipment.
4) It usually takes less than 1 minute a day. You arrive home, and plug it in. When you leave, you unplug it. If you forget to plug it in, it is not a problem. If there is a blackout, tripped breaker, or failure of the EVSE, no problem.
The second most common question is just as hard: "How many MPG does it get?"
1) It depends on what you are doing. 25 mpg to >1000 mpg. Our 3 Volts have a fleet average of over 380 miles per gallon.
2) Freeway travel in hybrid mode at 70 mph gets 40 mpg in normal conditions (G2).
3) Out of 9,349 owners of 2011-2018 cars, currently it's 112.84 mpg, or about 1000 miles between refills. This is based on pure telemetry, not user input (voltstats.net). Most of the data pool is the early version which has 35 miles of EV range and less mpg in hybrid model. So the number goes up over time.
It is the worry-free EV that requires no remote infrastructure.
I got the i3 from Pacific BMW. I got like $12,500 in incentives off ($9500 from BMW, $2k Loyalty, $1K grad discount) which got to my ultra low price along with a dealer discount of $5k off $49k MSRP car. You might qualify for other incentives like fleet etc that could get you to similar price. Greg Poland is the rep I worked with at Pacific BMW, try to reach him and he made the buying process super simple and straight forward, price better then anywhere else I looked and I didn't have to haggle. I will get HOV access sooner and don't have to worry about any delays in the Model 3. The lease is cheaper then I spend on gas per month.
BlackM3
Member
I agree with the OP. If EV tax credit is gone on Dec31 then I will wait another year to get Model3. For now I will purchase a loaded 2018 Chevy Volt Premium with adaptive cruise control for MSRP $40K, but realistically sells at $32K, minus $9K in federal and CA tax credit, cost of $23K plus tax. Then I will sell it in a couple years for $20K or give it to my wife. I just checked online and the 2-year old 2016 Chevy Volt Premiums are selling for $22K to $26K in my area. With tax credit gone maybe they will hold value since it's basically an EV for 95% of driving (Rare for me to exceed 60 miles in a day). Bottom line: I want the $7500 of free federal money. I want to drive in the Los Angeles carpool lanes until 2022. 60 pure EV miles in most cases, 0 to 60 in 7.1 seconds in many tests, and reviews of the car are very good. Too good to pass up, even with the crappy back seat and poor visibility out the back. If I can't get the $7500 of federal money for Model3 then I will wait until they fix the ugly steering wheel and make other quality improvements to interior. But I'm not kidding myself, the car I REALLY want is the Model3 for sure. But I will wait. Getting a good deal is more important to me. Hopefully new tax plan doesn't pass and I get Model3 in February instead of Volt in December.
cschock
Member
This is what we did. We had a Jetta TDI that we had to give back, for the obvious reason, and used the money we got to buy a three year old used Volt to tide us over until Model 3 is available. I can't say I "like" the Volt, but it has been reliable so far and for my typical usage case, it is pretty much entirely electric.
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