I lived through sh1t like this with my wife’s ID3. It seems like the Fisker Ocean has the same sort of crappy software. It’s not all roses in Tesla land, but at least the basics work (most of the time).
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Buyer beware
- Thread starter pdk42
- Start date
Jason71
Well-Known Member
People also lived with Sh1t like this with Tesla's not that long ago. I seem to recall not waking up to charge being an issue on early M3 in in the UK fat least for some people on some chargers. And I think that is the point. If you buy a new to market product the more likely you are to find software issues.
Tesla have been working on their software platform for 10+ years so as integrated in car software goes they almost certainly have the most mature platform out there now. But because their fit and finish is not always quite up to BMW standards some people dismiss them as poor quality. Most people don't think about the quality of software and how important it is when they are car shopping and, to be fair, its a hard thing to assess when buying a car anyway.
As VW found out. It does not matter how good you are at making cars. Software is a whole different ball game.
Tesla have been working on their software platform for 10+ years so as integrated in car software goes they almost certainly have the most mature platform out there now. But because their fit and finish is not always quite up to BMW standards some people dismiss them as poor quality. Most people don't think about the quality of software and how important it is when they are car shopping and, to be fair, its a hard thing to assess when buying a car anyway.
As VW found out. It does not matter how good you are at making cars. Software is a whole different ball game.
Zilla91
Active Member
The problem VW has is that the perceived quality of their new cars has also dropped considerably. Had the quality remained as good as it was in previous generations (think Golf 7 compared to the current Golf 8), the software issues might not have been so glaring.
I wouldn't buy an ID car even if they paid me just because of how low rent they feel.
I just think they look awful inside, people complain about Tesla's having no buttons. Some cars look like the buttons/switch have placed via a sawn off shot gun. That was my gripe about my previous car, was the layout and the sluggish sat nav that told you to take the next exit once you had passed it.
Honestly, I found the ID3 more comfortable to sit in for long periods than the M3 is. It was actually a nice car to drive on the motorway once you got over the "unconventional" interior. It was a bit floaty for my liking for non-motorway driving though. The matrix auto high beams felt like being in a next gen car and were flawless. The intelligent cruise was far better than TACC at keeping distance. Auto wipers were great, I don't think I ever touched them aside from washing the screen.
Unfortunately that was about all the positives I can think of. The in-car software was downright atrocious. Laggy, unresponsive, half of the "apps" didn't work. The infotainment would spontaneously reboot to black screen for no reason while driving. The phone app worked probably 20% of the time, if that. Scheduled charging never worked for me. OTA software update process seemed like it was written in the 90s, and from what I can gather still now requires cars to go back to a dealer for updates.
I've been keeping an eye on the different brands with a view to possibly changing my M3 next year. At the moment, I don't see any of them being comparable at anything close to the same price point. As others have said, Tesla software has its faults but when you start to look at other cars you see how embarrassingly behind they all are.
Looking at reviews and early owner experiences of the new slew of Korean and Chinese EVs, it seems they all suffer from weak software quality and lack of features. Tesla’s software base is very solid and their software dev processes deliver continuous and (mostly) painless software upgrades. It’s quite an achievement.
I'll second all of that, although I never used the inbuilt Apps as I used Android Auto exclusively.
The ACC and predict ahead in the ID.3 is way ahead of TACC.
The software took far too long to get sorted, it was embarrassing and they should have just brought in Google to do the job.
Never had the rebooting infotainment as far as I remember, had my First Edition from 9mths old to nearly 3 years old.
When I sold mine to get the M3 I was happy with the software, I just wanted some fun and that extra bit of range in winter.
I'm all for a nice choice for people to select the car they want, I would be happy to go back to the ID.4 GTX as a next car.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I bet most of them can schedule a start AND an end time simultaneously for charging though. Which still seems like a bizarre omission on Teslas.
My Fiat can do that but on the other hand you can't set a max charge % which is just as annoying.
I’d never trust VW with promises of future software again. Pre heating for rapid charging is still missing from the ID3 and it seems it’ll never get it - VW announced it’s in version 4 of the software but that’s incompatible with the hardware in the ID3. That’s shameful really - there’s a lot of features in V4 (Improved UI and pre heating being two of them) that surely don’t rely on new hardware - but they can’t be bothered to back port the features. Terrible behaviour for customers to whom they promised so much via OTA.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
Yeah stick with Tesla they NEVER promise software features that they don't deliver on time and fully working
I'm not so sure about that... I have a 2020 Model 3 LR that I'm looking to replace in the next few months.
I went for a test drive in a BMW i4 last week and was really looking forward to these fabled BMW standards, but to be honest the inside finish was pretty tacky - really plastic-y, the software was also unimpressive. The finish, software and drive on my old model 3 are of much higher quality.
It's a shame, as I really liked what I'd seen and read of the i4 before-hand... The hatchback, leather seats and head-up display are better than the model 3, but the finish and drive are all significantly worse. It made up my mind to go for a new highland.
Jason71
Well-Known Member
What matters though is the perception, and by using BMW as the bench mark I guess I am guilty as anyone of that. People perceive BMW/VW/Mercedes as having better build quality than Tesla (whether it is true or not) but most people don't perceive Tesla as having much better software than the above because most people don't really think about software at all in a car ahead of buying one let alone have it factor into their buying decisions and yet it is a bigger and bigger component of a car every year. so they really should.
I test drive an i4 and wasn’t overly impressed by the infotainment. In fact, despite it being the upgraded HK audio, the sound quality was pretty poor.
Zilla91
Active Member
iDrive 8 is fine. A bit complicated compared to iDrive 7 but then again, you only really regularly use a few features so once you know how to navigate to those (or set up shortcuts), it's fine.
The nav works as you expect, with charging stops added, but with the added bonus that you also get the map shown on the HUD, routing that adapts to traffic, the ability to check for alternative routes whenever you want and, if you pay the 20 quid a year sub, you also get camera alerts as well.
It has CarPlay, so app wise, that's all you really need. Sound system not as good as the Tesla? Fine, but it's a car at the end of the day, any sound system in a car is going to be compromised so it's not as big an issue as you make it out to be.
The BMW voice assistant is infinitely superior to the Tesla one.
Where the i4 falls down is a) the packaging and b) the weight of the bloody thing. Other than that, it's a brilliant car.
The nav works as you expect, with charging stops added, but with the added bonus that you also get the map shown on the HUD, routing that adapts to traffic, the ability to check for alternative routes whenever you want and, if you pay the 20 quid a year sub, you also get camera alerts as well.
It has CarPlay, so app wise, that's all you really need. Sound system not as good as the Tesla? Fine, but it's a car at the end of the day, any sound system in a car is going to be compromised so it's not as big an issue as you make it out to be.
The BMW voice assistant is infinitely superior to the Tesla one.
Where the i4 falls down is a) the packaging and b) the weight of the bloody thing. Other than that, it's a brilliant car.
Are you in my head? How do you know how big an issue it is to me?
Zilla91
Active Member
PITA
Model 3 Performance
I drive a 2021 Tesla Model 3 Performance and my Wife drives a 2023 Skoda Enyaq VRS Coupe with Maxx Pack (basically everything).
The Skoda is a better car for comfort, driver experience, useful features like comfort lighting, matrix headlights, augmented head-up display, 360 birds eye cameras, comfort adjust electronic suspension, wireless android auto, interior leather massage seat, useful button quick menu access, lane assist.
The Tesla is better for speed Performance, auto-pilot on Motorways, Software App Control, media entertainment & sound system.
If I had to sell one, and keep one. I'd keep the Skoda.
It's just more comfortable to drive.
But I'd miss the Tesla auto-pilot on boring motorway drives.
Thankfully, I don't have to sell one, and my plan is either to buy a Highland Ludicrous or Model S Plaid (with a carbon fibre grab stick for parking tickets).
The Skoda is a better car for comfort, driver experience, useful features like comfort lighting, matrix headlights, augmented head-up display, 360 birds eye cameras, comfort adjust electronic suspension, wireless android auto, interior leather massage seat, useful button quick menu access, lane assist.
The Tesla is better for speed Performance, auto-pilot on Motorways, Software App Control, media entertainment & sound system.
If I had to sell one, and keep one. I'd keep the Skoda.
It's just more comfortable to drive.
But I'd miss the Tesla auto-pilot on boring motorway drives.
Thankfully, I don't have to sell one, and my plan is either to buy a Highland Ludicrous or Model S Plaid (with a carbon fibre grab stick for parking tickets).
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Drew57
Active ember
Probably because the 42kW battery is restricted to 37kW at 100% so that's why we always let it charge to 'full' (~88% max). I don't find that to be an issue.
The most annoying thins is having to remember the on-off dash button when exiting the car.
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