Buying advice - New 3 or Used S

[philingle]

Hi Everyone

I am new here, so please be patient with me. I have tried reading through a lot of the threads already and I still have not really managed to crystalise my thoughts on this one.

I am looking at buying a Tesla and cant decide whether to buy a new model 3 or a used model S. If I go for a model S then my plan is to aim for one that is late 2016 or very early 2017, so hopefully has the 2.5 hardware and EAP but also still has the free supercharger for life. If I go for the model 3 I would want the long range option, but couldnt afford the FSD on top.

From what I am reading so far it seems that the EAP on the model S with the 2.5 hardware is better than the AP on the model 3 with the 3.0 hardware. What are people's thoughts on that?

The reason that I want to buy a Tesla is because I am living in the French alps at the moment, and I work out of Aberdeen. I usually fly between the two, roughly speaking traveling in either direction once every few weeks. Coronavirus has pushed me away from flying and I have worked out that I could drive it, but to do so using my head to drive navigate etc for that distance would be hard and dangerous. My thoughts are that a Tesla could take much of that load off, and do a fair bit of the driving for me. Added to which it would make a massive change to the amount of CO2 that I am personally responsible for.

So because of the length of the journey I think that free supercharging would be a good to have, however I would like to know if anyone thinks that that is kind of irrelevent given the low 'per mile' cost of the Tesla anyway.

But mainly because of the length of the journey I want the auto pilot to be good, reliable and take a lot of the load off.

I am looking forward to any advice you lot can give me and having a good discussion about this.

Thanks in advance

Phil

 

[philingle]

Oh, and according to A Better Routeplanner the route is 2000km long, would take 21h20min driving and 4h50 charging and would need 11 charging stops overall

 

[Ant M3]

For those distances (comfort) and free supercharging I think the S would be the better option

 

[markharro]

I don't think you will get free SCing on the S AND AP2.5. I spent months on Autotrader before finding and buying an early 2017 that has AP2 and free SCing (just). We haven't used SCers much given the lockdown but when you do it doesn't generate a feeling of smugness. Perhaps work out what you would save over the likely time you will own the car. Also, with AP2 I think I'm right in saying that if you buy FSD at some point Tesla will update the hardware in the same way they will if you have AP2.5. AP2.5 came in about two thirds of the way through 2017 I think.

 

[tonyj01]

I will add a different idea to your choices.

We own a 2016 MS90 (keeping it for now) and a 2020 M3 so I have experience of both cars in terms of comfort etc.

I am a 1.83m male driver and I find the driving position in the M3 a little cramped. It’s a great car, we like the minimalism of the interior and look of the car. However, the MS has much more interior space, more luggage space, as well as air suspension, software updates keep it fresh. longer wheelbase, and an opening sunroof.

Try sitting in both cars, or test driving, I think some of the choice will be based on your personal height and weight!

Tony

 

[freekie]

I have a M3 LR AWD. We have driven London to Chamonix lots in an ICE and once in the M3 using autopilot (not FSD). Driving the M3 was much less tiring than driving our ICE. Owing to costs, I wouldn’t factor free supercharging so much but go for the car you most like to drive as you will be spending a lot of time in it. Assuming you already have a ‘tag’ for tolls - it really helps. Eurotunnel is the best crossing for speed and topping up charging at the terminal.

 

[bhav]

I have a M3 LR AWD. We have driven London to Chamonix lots in an ICE and once in the M3 using autopilot (not FSD). Driving the M3 was much less tiring than driving our ICE. Owing to costs, I wouldn’t factor free supercharging so much but go for the car you most like to drive as you will be spending a lot of time in it. Assuming you already have a ‘tag’ for tolls - it really helps. Eurotunnel is the best crossing for speed and topping up charging at the terminal.

Would be great if you could write up your experience of that trip to Chamonix in the M3 in a bit more detail!

Reckon quite a few people would find it valuable to hear what worked well/what didn't/what you'd do differently!

 

[markharro]

I've not been in a M3 but one thing I'd say about the MS is that the rear headroom is surprisingly poor for taller occupants.

 

[philingle]

OK, so I have looked at costs, it looks like without free supercharging the journey will cost me about £50 each way, so I am looking at perhaps £800 to £900 a year on charging up for that to and from work usage. Say over five years of ownership that is going to be about £4000. So that makes one with free supercharging worth £4k more to me than one without.

 

[mw713tx]

I’d focus on the space aspect. The rear seats of the 3 are not very big and there is little floor space and little trunk space. The S has much more rear seat space and more trunk space. If you need the space, get the S. Otherwise the 3 with the newer systems is better.

 

[MrBadger]

If you intend to carry full sized people in the back for extended periods of time, just be mindful of the high floor/low seat in the rear of the M3. I am certainly more aware of my knees being higher in front of me, and I'm not particularly tall.

 

[ArunG]

I have a 2019 MS100 (non-Raven) which is the best car I have ever bought. The one drawback that I have found is having driven from Glasgow to London and back a few times is the number and length of times that I have to stop to charge. I believe the newer battery technology in the M3, specifically the speed of charging would be a benefit to you bearing in mind the distances you will be covering. I also started with the holy grail of a MS with AP2.5 and free supercharging, but it is a only small saving compared to finding the right car at a good price.

 

[AndyS3]

I have MS '19 with free supercharging and a M3. I dont think there is much in it for comfort. I prefer a larger car but would be delighted to have the M3 if its was my only car.

Both cars are more than capable of covering large distance, M3 having a potential to charge a little quicker.

The M3 is better built out of the factory. Ive had my MS back to adjust tailgate and repaint where it rubbed paint away

You need to be able to sort out your own tyre repairs or carry spacesaver wheel. You will get a puncture at some point covering those distances.

 

[InternetDude]

I've owned two Model S's. Go for the 3 for reliability and faster supercharging reasons. But realistically you should drive both and decide at that point, they are very different cars inside.

 

[Adopado]

I’d focus on the space aspect. The rear seats of the 3 are not very big and there is little floor space and little trunk space. The S has much more rear seat space and more trunk space. If you need the space, get the S. Otherwise the 3 with the newer systems is better.

I just watched a FullyCharged video with Robert Llewelyn saying that his M3 has more room in the back than he had in his Model S ... strange!

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

There's quite extensive information on whats the difference between versions and when things came out on a web site I favour (so sorry for the number of links) as it seems to summerise the detail rather than wading through lots of posts on forums. From my reading:

- Free supercharging is only available oin new MS/MX and non Tesla sales of cars first registered before March 2017. Much more detail here:

Tesla Info: Do I have free supercharging?

- Autopilot hardware changed from the Mobileye system in late 2016 to HW2, and HW2.5 didn't arrive until 2018 way after transferable free supercharging went. The main changes over time are listed here:

Tesla model history and changes by year

- The difference between the different autopilot systems is often closer than you think. The early HW2 cars miss a lot of functionality thats available on the later cars, especially if you have HW2 and MCU1. As a result, unless the car can be upgraded, and for that you need to have FSD paid for, a HW2 car is not vastly different to the older AP1 system, and in some cases the AP1 is better (for instance it reads speed limits). On a long drive on roads like the French peage, both systems are more than adequate, I've driven to Italy and Spain quite happily in an AP1 car.. More details on the hardware differences:

Tesla AP, EAP, FSD, HW2, HW2.5 HW3, MCU1 and MCU2 feature differences

The differences between a MS and an M3 with respect to dimensions etc can be seen side by side here, although I think they only look at the current MS, the earlier cars had a 7 seat option if you class the 2 rear facing seats as seats, really they were just for kids and short journeys. The MS is noticeably larger and I think better looking but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. M3 wins on things like beling slightly faster to charge (although for the real speed improvement you need the new V3 superchargers and currently I think there is just one location with them in the Uk) and better efficiency (not that efficiency matters that much if you're charging for free).:

Tesla S3XY differences

The last could of points:
Depreciation - while Model 3s are still fairly new and not really suffered from depreciation yet, its an unknown element in the future. You would normally expect a used car to depreciate less than a new car as the depreciation is rarely a stratight line, a good £45k MS may therefore hold its value slightly better than a £45k M3 over say 2 years. But an MS with free supercharging is going to drop out of warranty soon except for the battery and motor so swings and roundabouts. There are more independant repair places setting up who can cost a fraction of Teslas prices (eMMC fix is £500 v £2500 at Tesla, door handles are a £80 fix inc labour v £350 at Tesla etc).

The MS would probably have free premium connectivity, the M3 might have a year free and then you pay £10 a month if bothered.

In your shoes I'd be looking at a facelift MS 90Ds are around 45k with what you want, or pay 5k and get a bonkers P90D (check it has ludicrous) - there are few 100Ds with free sueprcharging around and you seem to pay £10k more for them. Or I'd be after a M3 Long Range. I have a suspicion that the M3 Performance will be upgraded to a faster version at some point and take the edge of the current model, but thats speculation.

 

[Noel83]

@philingle Are you absolutely set on this approach?

21h20min driving and 4h50 charging - so over 24 hours, you're going to need a hotel en route I'm assuming, more cost, and you'll put a ton of miles on the car so you're into extra tyres, you'll batter your way through the warranty mileage etc. Realistically that's two full days of driving plus whatever the ferry is, traffic jams and tolls etc.

Then once you've arrived you'll be knackered from the concentration of driving no matter how good EAP etc is.

Personally unless you're super vulnerable and truly have no other choice I'd stick to flights, take precautions as best you can and get back something like 30-50 days a year of your life that can be WAY more valuable.

Not meaning to be dismissive but just wanted to gently challenge the approach. Life must go on and if this shows us anything it's that time is truly the most valuable thing there is so I'm not sure I'd want to spend it four days a month driving.

Then still get a Tesla for one end or the other that you can then truly enjoy (for me that'd be the 3 having just taken delivery of an M3P

Genuinely mean this politely and gently, so hope it's useful

 

[Ant M3]

@philingle Are you absolutely set on this approach?

21h20min driving and 4h50 charging - so over 24 hours, you're going to need a hotel en route I'm assuming, more cost, and you'll put a ton of miles on the car so you're into extra tyres, you'll batter your way through the warranty mileage etc. Realistically that's two full days of driving plus whatever the ferry is, traffic jams and tolls etc.

Then once you've arrived you'll be knackered from the concentration of driving no matter how good EAP etc is.

Personally unless you're super vulnerable and truly have no other choice I'd stick to flights, take precautions as best you can and get back something like 30-50 days a year of your life that can be WAY more valuable.

Not meaning to be dismissive but just wanted to gently challenge the approach. Life must go on and if this shows us anything it's that time is truly the most valuable thing there is so I'm not sure I'd want to spend it four days a month driving.

Then still get a Tesla for one end or the other that you can then truly enjoy (for me that'd be the 3 having just taken delivery of an M3P

Genuinely mean this politely and gently, so hope it's useful

That’s a great way to look at it !

 

[pgkevet]

That’s a great way to look at it !

Agree. As a 'one off' fun trip it might be OK but as any regular journey it'd get old very quickly.
I've done a couple of long hauls when younger. London to Prague with only petrol stops was fun and fast with autobahns until a 3 hour delay at the border (pre joining EU) and getting to Prague was way after midnight instead of the 10pm deadline I'd given myself and a very nauseous pasenger from the twisty parts of the route I was belting down.
Another time a dirt cheap night fare offer tempted me to go to Amsterdam for the day via Harwich thinking we'd kip on the boat and arrive fresh... didn't allow for the drunk yahoo's outbound or the hangover yahoos on the way back. I ended up having to kip in the car for 3 hrs to be functional.
Prague with a decent evening meal, comfy bed half way is so much better.
If you want to be green and spend even longer en route then bus looks cheapest at 31hrs or a bicycle apparently is only 108hrs

 

[philingle]

@philingle Are you absolutely set on this approach?

21h20min driving and 4h50 charging - so over 24 hours, you're going to need a hotel en route I'm assuming, more cost, and you'll put a ton of miles on the car so you're into extra tyres, you'll batter your way through the warranty mileage etc. Realistically that's two full days of driving plus whatever the ferry is, traffic jams and tolls etc.

Then once you've arrived you'll be knackered from the concentration of driving no matter how good EAP etc is.

Personally unless you're super vulnerable and truly have no other choice I'd stick to flights, take precautions as best you can and get back something like 30-50 days a year of your life that can be WAY more valuable.

Not meaning to be dismissive but just wanted to gently challenge the approach. Life must go on and if this shows us anything it's that time is truly the most valuable thing there is so I'm not sure I'd want to spend it four days a month driving.

Then still get a Tesla for one end or the other that you can then truly enjoy (for me that'd be the 3 having just taken delivery of an M3P

Genuinely mean this politely and gently, so hope it's useful

I am fairly set on it.

It is partly because of COVID, but not totally driven by it, and I would carry on after COVID has been and gone.

Flying is not that straight forward, Turin airport is small and there are no direct flights from there, it is 2 hours drive away, Milan and Marseille are bigger but still don't have direct flights, they are 3 hours away. Geneva sometimes has direct flights in the winter, but it is nearly 5 hours away. Sometimes I manage to make the trip in one long day with a transfer in Paris or Amsterdam, sometimes I catch a late flight to London, stay there overnight then an early flight up to Aberdeen. Given I am never sure what day I will finish work, and that a number or the flights are weekday only, or weekend only, or only on mondays and fridays, there is always a chance that when I want to come home, I can't fly back to the same airport, unless I wait a day or two in Aberdeen. So I generally use public transport to get to the airport so that I can fly back to a different airport and get home without leaving my car stranded somewhere. So getting to Milan for example takes more like 8 hours.

So even flying usually takes me two days with hours of waiting around and an overnight in a hotel somewhere. To me the Tesla journey doesn't look that bad in comparison. But that is based on my limited understanding of how much the Tesla is going to ease the journey for me over driving any other car.