Can you make it across the Navajo Reservation?

[phxazcraig]

I would like to take my 2023 MYP up to Colorado via my usual route, which goes from Flagstaff to Cameron to Tuba City to Kayenta to 4 Corners to Cortez. I can charge at the Supercharge on 89a in Flag. I could stop for a couple of hours on the Hopi Reservation at Moenkapi fpr a level 2 charge, I think @60amps. Moenkapi is close to Tuba City.

Tuba City is 190 miles from Cortez. You gain about 2,000 feet in altitude heading into Colorado.

Two questions, maybe 3:
1. Can the MYP make that distance? (I assume it barely might.) Wind, temps (hot or cold), altitude can all have major effects, especially wind.
2. Once I get to Cortez with about 0% range, what can I do to recharge?

Bonus question - have you been able to do this drive in your EV.

Note that I do not want to go to Page, Farmington or Blanding.

 

[jmrerg]

Can you charge on the Charge point CCS charger in Bluff UT?

 

[phxazcraig]

Can you charge on the Charge point CCS charger in Bluff UT?

Not on the route.

 

[Benito1283]

I would use A Better Route Planner and it should give you a pretty accurate estimate.

 

[GtiMart]

Not a direct answer to your question but you have some control over your consumption. If you go slow (certainly under 55mph) you'll stretch your distance. The same can be said about heating/cooling... not using it can save a few good kWh and thus stretch the distance you can make... Not much you can do on elevation though. The ABRP suggestion is good, and change your target speed to see how it affects your range.

 

[E90alex]

You can plan the trip in the Tesla app, in your car, and/or ABRP and see what it shows.

 

[phxazcraig]

OK, clearly no one reading this thread has actually tried this trip. I don't think it is possible in my car, at any speed. ABRP doesn't think so either. It tries to force me through Page and Blanding. If I eliminate Page, I can't make Blanding.

On the other hand, if I had 100% charge in Kayenta, I could make Cortez with 39%. Kayenta, of course, is smack dab in the middle of the Rez., and is the strategically perfect place to have a fast charger. The fact that nothing has been done since the first mentions of chargers there in 2015 means ... nothing is being done for a while, at least.

NEVI plans for the future, about 5 years out, show fast chargers in a dozen locations on the Rez. Locals have a lot of resentment against chargers, which is probably the main reason nothing at all is currently available on the Rez. (Not even a Chargepoint at a govt facility.) I'm happy that at least with stops in Page and Blanding you can see Monument Valley, but it does mean basically going around the Rez entirely if just transiting to Colorado. And I have the impression that many Navajos would be happy to see tourists entirely avoid the Rez anyway, especially the rich ones driving Teslas.

 

[jsmay311]

No first-hand knowledge unfortunately.

OK, clearly no one reading this thread has actually tried this trip. I don't think it is possible in my car, at any speed. ABRP doesn't think so either. It tries to force me through Page and Blanding. If I eliminate Page, I can't make Blanding.

On the other hand, if I had 100% charge in Kayenta, I could make Cortez with 39%. Kayenta, of course, is smack dab in the middle of the Rez., and is the strategically perfect place to have a fast charger. The fact that nothing has been done since the first mentions of chargers there in 2015 means ... nothing is being done for a while, at least.

NEVI plans for the future, about 5 years out, show fast chargers in a dozen locations on the Rez. Locals have a lot of resentment against chargers, which is probably the main reason nothing at all is currently available on the Rez. (Not even a Chargepoint at a govt facility.) I'm happy that at least with stops in Page and Blanding you can see Monument Valley, but it does mean basically going around the Rez entirely if just transiting to Colorado. And I have the impression that many Navajos would be happy to see tourists entirely avoid the Rez anyway, especially the rich ones driving Teslas.

Idk what settings differences in ABRP might explain it, but I’m able to get it to spit out a direct route from Tuba City to Cortez for a MYP (assuming you charge to 100% in Tuba City).

With “season weather” selected, it’s cutting it very close (6% arrival SOC) and requires <70mph speeds.

Without “seasonal weather” toggled OFF it assumes no wind and 70F temps, and then it has you arriving with 19% and no speed reductions.

So prob not something I’d be comfortable trying in the winter unless conditions (wind, temp, precipitation) were all favorable.

And charging options in Cortez look very sparse on Plugshare. I see just two 6kw J1772 plugs at a public pool.

 

[GtiMart]

That means you should arrive at more than 6% SOC if you go even slower than 70Mph, like 50Mph for example. Input that as max in ABRP and see what it tells you.

 

[phxazcraig]

Tuba City to Cortez is maybe doable in an MYP if starting at 95-100%. Problem is, I don't know of any place in Tuba City to get a charge. Moenkopi is nearby, on the Hopi Reservation, and about the same distance 190 miles). 77 miles from Flagstaff, so could get to Moenkapi easily and then maybe only 1-2 hours to charge to full? But, Moenkopi is about 1,500 feet lower than Cortez, and the weather out there can get quite nasty. Often a big sidewind along US-160. (I've been on a motorcycle a dozen times or more there, often got a sore neck from the wind.) In the winter I wouldn't even think about it much, and in the summer you've definitely got to run the A/C in the daytime. As for speeds, I'd be OK staying at 70mph or below on that run. If I ran into a headwind, I think it would kill me though. And of course then there is Cortez, and the lack of charging infrastructure there. But still, under 200 miles from Moenkopi... I need to run some tests.

I'll play more with ABRP and speeds.

 

[phxazcraig]

OK, just played with ABRP, starting at the Moenkopi Inn, going to generic Cortez. Starting with 90% charge didn't work - sent me via Blanding. But going to 98% DID work, getting me to Cortez with 7% charge. Not a great margin there, but the average consumption is 357wh/mile, which sounds doable except maybe the elevation gain, and of course weather conditions. Still, with a car rated (latest) for 285 miles of range, it seems barely doable with this stop. No way without a stop though. I'm so tempted to try it, but then the consequences of being 10 miles short, and having maybe nothing but 120v when I get there still puts me off.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

OK, just played with ABRP, starting at the Moenkopi Inn, going to generic Cortez. Starting with 90% charge didn't work - sent me via Blanding. But going to 98% DID work, getting me to Cortez with 7% charge. Not a great margin there, but the average consumption is 357wh/mile, which sounds doable except maybe the elevation gain, and of course weather conditions. Still, with a car rated (latest) for 285 miles of range, it seems barely doable with this stop. No way without a stop though. I'm so tempted to try it, but then the consequences of being 10 miles short, and having maybe nothing but 120v when I get there still puts me off.

Just be sure to enter your correct battery capacity into ABRP. Do the calculation for your car and get it right! ABRP assumes a Model Y has 79kWh (easy to see). It defaults to 5% capacity loss if you don’t adjust it.

Also note that ABRP doesn’t seem to correctly account for the buffer (in some places - see below) so if you use 100% according to their tool, that may include the buffer. So 95% use in ABRP route table means going from 100% to 0% in the car.

And wait for a tailwind.

I see at 120% ref speed in Model Y LR you can do Moenkopi to Cortez with 72.6kWh. It says this is to 8%, but on a brand new car that would be 100% to 4% (72.6kWh not digging in to buffer for % calc).

Seems doable in good conditions. It’s 191 miles.

Something is messed up in their calcs because they say it is 191 miles, at 362Wh/mi, which is 69kWh, but they claim it will take 72.6kWh in the summary table.

This is the 95.5% factor so I suspect in some areas they may actually be accounting for the buffer. It is hard to say since one of the data points is definitely wrong, and it is hard to know if the efficiency is too good, or they just screwed up the calc.

Just kind of messed up web page engine. Who knows what you’d actually get. I’d just make sure to be getting 330-340Wh/mi on the level and if not give up and return to start point.

Anyway: Seems very doable in a brand new car in favorable conditions, but after a couple years, losing 10%, those 8kWh are going to be sorely missed for this specific route and you would have to be very careful.

 

[GtiMart]

...what about slower than ref speeds instead of 20% higher. We aren't always obligated to drive over the limit Mind you I normally drive 20% over (allegedly) bit when you need to stretch it, you can go slower.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

...what about slower than ref speeds instead of 20% higher. We aren't always obligated to drive over the limit Mind you I normally drive 20% over (allegedly) bit when you need to stretch it, you can go slower.

Would be much better but for that drive it would likely be too slow for keeping up with traffic. Was just trying to establish whether there was margin.

 

[phxazcraig]

...what about slower than ref speeds instead of 20% higher. We aren't always obligated to drive over the limit Mind you I normally drive 20% over (allegedly) bit when you need to stretch it, you can go slower.

Hehe. I'm guessing you've never driven on an indian reservation. There are two speeds - white and Navajo. White tourists zip through at 75mph (2-lane, 55mph limit mostly), while Navajos are plugging along at 50-55, often in a pickup truck with people loaded in back. I'd be plugging along with them on this trip. Going into Cortez means going up over 1,000 foot elevation, which may account for some odd consumption in ABRP. ABRP expects me to use 91% of my MYP battery, which sounds risky even when new. I need a bail-out plan if I'm coming up 20 miles short. For that matter I don't really know what to do once I get to Cortez as destination chargers seem hard to find.

 

[boulder.dude]

The Navajo rez is the great American charging desert! We crossed it in March 2022 by staying in the Moenkapi overnight and charging to 100% there.

Can you take I-40 through Gallup then Farmington, etc.? Less stressful.

 

[SnowFlyer]

I’m a Model S 100D driver with many trips between Flagstaff and Cortez going to and from Telluride. I recommend a charging stop in either via Gallup or Blanding.

Gallup seems safest because it has the most alternative fast charging options. In the extremely rare occasion that there’s an issue with the Gallup SC then one can use a CCS or Chademo adapter to charge at the Electrify America in Gallup (you’ll need to buy this ahead of time but it’s very good to have in a pinch) or use the Tesla SC in Farmington.

If you want to follow the more traditional ICE route across the Rez via 160 there are L2 (Moenkopi aka Tuba City) and Charge Point’s slowish 62kW L1 (aka L1.5 in Bluff UT), but they may require more effort or are a little sketchier (worse plan B options and more limited charging stalls, 2 Bluff and 3 Moenkopi) than just using the superchargers I outlined above.

Finally, if you plan to return to Flagstaff and you want to follow the traditional ICE route via 160 across the Rez that is actually the hardest segment in an EV because of additional elevation gain climbing into Flagstaff and you are frequently driving into the prevailing regional winds driving to the southwest.

If you’re planning a return trip from Cortez to Flagstaff, the I-40 route Cortez-Gallup-Flagstaff is best because you have a supercharger in Gallup and then another one in Holbrook halfway between Gallup and Flagstaff. Getting from Telluride to Gallup has alwsys been easy and Cortez is about 70 miles closer to Gallup.

 

[BroncoAZ]

OK, clearly no one reading this thread has actually tried this trip. I don't think it is possible in my car, at any speed. ABRP doesn't think so either. It tries to force me through Page and Blanding. If I eliminate Page, I can't make Blanding.

On the other hand, if I had 100% charge in Kayenta, I could make Cortez with 39%. Kayenta, of course, is smack dab in the middle of the Rez., and is the strategically perfect place to have a fast charger. The fact that nothing has been done since the first mentions of chargers there in 2015 means ... nothing is being done for a while, at least.

NEVI plans for the future, about 5 years out, show fast chargers in a dozen locations on the Rez. Locals have a lot of resentment against chargers, which is probably the main reason nothing at all is currently available on the Rez. (Not even a Chargepoint at a govt facility.) I'm happy that at least with stops in Page and Blanding you can see Monument Valley, but it does mean basically going around the Rez entirely if just transiting to Colorado. And I have the impression that many Navajos would be happy to see tourists entirely avoid the Rez anyway, especially the rich ones driving Teslas.

I lived in Flagstaff 1994-2001 and 2016-2020. For those who’ve never been, driving onto the Navajo Nation is like going back in time to 30 years ago. I agree with your impression on a desire to keep outsiders off their land.